Unban - Juntu (Unban Request Granted by Leon)

[Juntu]

● Your LFS Username: Juntunen123

● Time & Date of Incident: 2015-03-29 00:56:0

● Replay / Screenshot Link: http://www.mediafire.com/download/qknusa...2X_23R.mpr

● Replay Timestamps: The argument begins right after 29:00.
I was banned 41:44.30. For the best view on what happened you have to watch the whole part from 29:00 to 41:44

● Reasons as to why you feel you deserve an unban:
There was an argument going on inbetween Howlin, Leon and Bez about the layout in the chat. I tried to calm the accusations towards Bez since i was in TS and knew what was going on. Also it was in public chat.

What lead to the ban was negative attitude from all who joined the conversation, including me in a way.

I did say *** you to Leon, in a jokingly way after he accused me of telling him incorrect facts, which he on his own refused to acknowledge. He also told me to leave.

I think the ban was an overkill since the conversation was heated and the general attitude was very poor at the time. Also, you can clearly see that what i said was not meant in a harmful manner.

[[TC] Howlin]

The admin who placed the original ban has been notified and will reply shortly

[[TC-R] Luke]

Just giving you an update.

Leon is currently not able to take this unban right now as he is away. He predicts he wont be able to respond for another 2 days, at least.

Please be patient and he will get back to you asap.

[[TC]►Leon◄]

Finally landed in Denmark! Sorry for the wait, Juntu.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to a computer or LFS, so I can't review the replay or use examples from it, so I'll have to go by memory.

To the point:

I was having a discussion with Bez, yes. Professional? No. However, it was a discussion that didn't concern you and that you by no means contributed to, since you weren't asked, nor initially were part of. I can't remember quite what was said, but when a user asked what happened to the layout, you replied with a somewhat twisted truth and heavily exaggerated facts. When I then told you that if you were going to make untrue statements and/or lies (again, I can't remember the exact phrasing) you replied, and I quote:

*Removed* you Leon

You say that you meant it in a "joking" manner - Really, Juntu? I'm not going to share specific numbers unless you want them shared, but I assume you have an idea of what your record says about your use of profanities, not only in general, but often targeted at users. You've also received multiple warnings to stop swearing on the servers and if not, a lengthy ban would be issued.

[Juntu]

Firstly, no problem - Have a nice trip!

To the point: As you can't watch the replay i will include the conversation:

The user you talk of was Shikari, who asked: "why has the lay been removed? D:"

To which i said: "because Leon and Howlin had a problem, Shikari"

To which you replied: "Juntu, i didn't have a problem with the layout. I had a problem with the exits that Bez was blocking"

Sidenote: ^ the same thing basicly as Bez was just testing stuff and got annoyed with everyone criticizing everything he did and to TS knowledge he was building/testing a version that had been talked upon. Because so many people were against them, Bez removed the layout and quit.

To your reply i said: "because that was the general idea at first to block them off" (As it was)

And then you said the: "If your going to spew lies or untrue information, i'm going to advise you to leave the server"

At which point did I spew lies or untrue information? I got annoyed with your attitude of not wanting the correct information that Ras, Bez and I were trying to tell you and then you say something like that, which sounds absurd considering the context.

Also the fact that you still think the conversation "didn't concern" me, or the others in the server infact is weird. It is called PUBLIC chat for a reason, Leon. Public as in anyone can join in. Also the fact that i was in TS listening to Bez and the others talk about the thing you had the problem with, yes - I felt included. To your accusations of not contributing i did tell the same facts as Bez and Ras before me, facts that you refused to understand.

I do understand i have had several fines for swearing and to my knowledge one warning of what you described. I do however think that considering what was going on and the general way of how things went down, its much too lengthy of a ban.
However, i do apologize if what i said offended you or other users who were online.

[[TC]►Leon◄]

(2015-04-25 19:43)Juntu Wrote:  Firstly, no problem - Have a nice trip!

Thanks!

Juntu Wrote:The user you talk of was Shikari, who asked: "why has the lay been removed? D:"

To which i said: "because Leon and Howlin had a problem, Shikari"

This is/was one of this issues when it happened. Putting it the way you put it not only puts me in a very bad light, but also makes the ordeal look much worse than it was. Had you instead chosen to say - in a non condescending manner - what my actual issue was:

Quote:"Juntu, i didn't have a problem with the layout. I had a problem with the exits that Bez was blocking"

- there wouldn't have been a problem. When I then continued to say:

Quote:"If your going to spew lies or untrue information, I'm going to advise you to leave the server"

- it was, as far as my memory serves me, meant to be a continuation of the previous sentence.

Juntu Wrote:Sidenote: ^ the same thing basicly as Bez was just testing stuff and got annoyed with everyone criticizing everything he did and to TS knowledge he was building/testing a version that had been talked upon.

My problem wasn't with the layout per se, but the seemingly random blocking of entry and exit points. My concern was people driving at high speeds, expecting a clear path which, out of the blue, would be blocked. However, that part of the discussion isn't really what is at hand here.

Juntu Wrote:Because so many people were against them, Bez removed the layout and quit.

I can't speak for other people and didn't keep tabs on what they were saying. Quite a few people joined in the discussion, but please keep in mind that I wasn't talking to them. I was only talking to Bez and don't have any power over what other people choose to say or do.

Juntu Wrote:At which point did I spew lies or untrue information? I got annoyed with your attitude of not wanting the correct information that Ras, Bez and I were trying to tell you and then you say something like that, which sounds absurd considering the context.

As previously stated, my problem was that instead of telling him what the issue was, you, in a clearly negative tone, said it was because I had a problem. The issue was much more complex than that.

Juntu Wrote:Also the fact that you still think the conversation "didn't concern" me, or the others in the server infact is weird. It is called PUBLIC chat for a reason, Leon. Public as in anyone can join in. Also the fact that i was in TS listening to Bez and the others talk about the thing you had the problem with, yes - I felt included. To your accusations of not contributing i did tell the same facts as Bez and Ras before me, facts that you refused to understand.

To be blunt: It didn't. It may be a public chat, but I wasn't talking to you.

Juntu Wrote:I do understand i have had several fines for swearing and to my knowledge one warning of what you described. I do however think that considering what was going on and the general way of how things went down, its much too lengthy of a ban.
However, i do apologize if what i said offended you or other users who were online.

You have multiple warnings for it and I simply refuse to believe that you thought I wouldn't be offended by what you said. Especially considering your record.

[Juntu]

Juntu Wrote:The user you talk of was Shikari, who asked: "why has the lay been removed? D:" To which i said: "because Leon and Howlin had a problem, Shikari"

(2015-04-26 16:03)Leon Wrote:  This is/was one of this issues when it happened. Putting it the way you put it not only puts me in a very bad light, but also makes the ordeal look much worse than it was. Had you instead chosen to say - in a non condescending manner - what my actual issue was:

So, you rather that I show you in a good light and thus not tell the truth as i saw it happen right before my eyes? Sounds a little personal.

You and Howlin had a problem/issue with Bez doing changes to the layout that you and Howlin had'nt heard of (Because you refuse to use teamspeak) - which caused Bez, Ras and myself to try and tell you about what had been talked upon --> You guys refused to understand that and i quote "So we dont get a say in this?", showing the problem was not the layout, the problem was your attitude towards Bez and what he was doing.

Leon Wrote:As previously stated, my problem was that instead of telling him what the issue was, you, in a clearly negative tone, said it was because I had a problem. The issue was much more complex than that.

I presented the issue with the same attitude you and Howlin were treating everyone else in the chat that had a clue of what was happening. Not pointing fingers, pointing out attitude not suited for an admin. I feel sorry to include Howlin into all this, since he atleast didnt call me a liar.

As to "The issue was much more complex than that". I agree, the issue was way more complex than just layouts, its you getting mad over something your own doing could've prevented. Join TS. Listen.

Leon Wrote:To be blunt: It didn't. It may be a public chat, but I wasn't talking to you.

To be blunt back: You have difficulties understanding the word public. If you say something publicly you cant expect us not to read it and act accordingly as I, Ras and many others did. Blaming someone for doing something that he was doing for greater good - In this case creating a layout, atleast i will defend said person from false accusations and bad attitude that someone shows for no real reason.

Leon Wrote:You have multiple warnings for it and I simply refuse to believe that you thought I wouldn't be offended by what you said. Especially considering your record.

Yes, I have a record and it is not pretty. But for someone who can't really get a mark on their record anymore, you show even worse attitude at times.
I might be a d*** but atleast I dont show bad attitude without a proper reason.

However, again, I am sorry if you felt offended.

[[TC] Howlin]

On behalf of Leon, he's not going to be able to continue with this until the 12th of May when he gets home.

Sorry for the inconvenience however as you know he's away on personal business at the moment and his internet access is not good enough to be able to deal with this, i'm sure he will make every effort to do so should the opportunity arise.

[Juntu]

Would be great if management could take over this, as Leon is clearly away for a long time and he has had a chance to say what he needs to say, atleast in my opinion.

[Juntu]

Bump, even tho it has no effect at all.

[[TC]►BP◄]

This will get reviewed by Leon.

[[TC]►Leon◄]

Finally back from Denmark! Sorry for the wait.

(2015-04-26 19:39)Juntu Wrote:  

Juntu Wrote:The user you talk of was Shikari, who asked: "why has the lay been removed? D:" To which i said: "because Leon and Howlin had a problem, Shikari"

(2015-04-26 16:03)Leon Wrote:  This is/was one of this issues when it happened. Putting it the way you put it not only puts me in a very bad light, but also makes the ordeal look much worse than it was. Had you instead chosen to say - in a non condescending manner - what my actual issue was:

So, you rather that I show you in a good light and thus not tell the truth as i saw it happen right before my eyes? Sounds a little personal.

Not at all, the truth would have sufficed. Saying that I "had a problem" sounds more negative than it needs to be and easily leads to unnecessary speculation.

Juntu Wrote:You and Howlin had a problem/issue with Bez doing changes to the layout that you and Howlin had'nt heard of (Because you refuse to use teamspeak) - which caused Bez, Ras and myself to try and tell you about what had been talked upon --> You guys refused to understand that and i quote "So we dont get a say in this?", showing the problem was not the layout, the problem was your attitude towards Bez and what he was doing.

Juntu, are you even reading my replies? All but one statement above have been answered in a previous reply. As for the unaddressed

Quote:"So we dont get a say in this?"

- goes, I didn't say that and, as previously stated, I have no control over other peoples words or actions. Also, the quote is incorrect. It was:

Howlin Wrote:So nobody else gets a say?

Juntu Wrote:

Leon Wrote:As previously stated, my problem was that instead of telling him what the issue was, you, in a clearly negative tone, said it was because I had a problem. The issue was much more complex than that.

I presented the issue with the same attitude you and Howlin were treating everyone else in the chat that had a clue of what was happening. Not pointing fingers, pointing out attitude not suited for an admin. I feel sorry to include Howlin into all this, since he atleast didnt call me a liar.

As to "The issue was much more complex than that". I agree, the issue was way more complex than just layouts, its you getting mad over something your own doing could've prevented. Join TS. Listen.

I have to say that I'm failing to see where I was mistreating "everyone in the chat"

To address the recurring theme of TS and my lack of using it: I very rarely use TS as it simply causes me much more grief than anything else. I always have issues with echoing, interference, dropouts and microphone failure. On top of that, TS isn't the official tube wherein all information is channeled to the team members. If an important point is made in TS, it will be mentioned in the members area.

Juntu Wrote:

Leon Wrote:To be blunt: It didn't. It may be a public chat, but I wasn't talking to you.

To be blunt back: You have difficulties understanding the word public. If you say something publicly you cant expect us not to read it and act accordingly as I, Ras and many others did. Blaming someone for doing something that he was doing for greater good - In this case creating a layout, atleast i will defend said person from false accusations and bad attitude that someone shows for no real reason.

False accusations? Where's that coming from? The rest of this paragraph I've answered in an earlier reply.

Juntu Wrote:

Leon Wrote:You have multiple warnings for it and I simply refuse to believe that you thought I wouldn't be offended by what you said. Especially considering your record.

Yes, I have a record and it is not pretty. But for someone who can't really get a mark on their record anymore, you show even worse attitude at times.
I might be a d*** but atleast I dont show bad attitude without a proper reason.

However, again, I am sorry if you felt offended.

I can still get marks, Juntu. It's just that their consequences are a bit more serious for me than you.

[Juntu]

As much as I like to fight, your decision would be appreciated over this bickering on details when pretty much everything has already been said.

I am still sorry if i offended you or others present.

[[TC]►Leon◄]

(2015-05-11 15:18)Juntu Wrote:  As much as I like to fight, your decision would be appreciated over this bickering on details when pretty much everything has already been said.

I am still sorry if i offended you or others present.

Fair enough. I just didn't want any questions to go unanswered.

Due to the conduct of multiple parties that day, I'm going to unban you. You've been banned for 44 days, which might seem long, but, keeping your track record in mind - and the fact that you had to be forum unbanned to make this request, it's not too bad.

Please stick to a more sober tone in the future - Even when you think the admin is being a massive phallus.

- Leon

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Unban Request Granted.

You will be unbanned shortly.