Catalyst question.

[Jimmy]

Hi, I am wonder if what happends without catalyst in others countrys like environmental crime we have that in Sweden i have heard its will be ticket here i live around 18,000 Euro only cars is 1989 need catalyst but not older from 1983 or that dont need it. just wondring how is it in others country.

[Klurax]

That you get a 18k euro's fine in Sweden is a myth, all you have to do is re-do the MOT if a cop notice you haven't got one (The emission test) and it cost like 320 SEK. All cars from -89 needs to have a cat fitted by law but there is cars before -89 that got cat fitted from factory and you need to keep it. If you move into Sweden and take your car with you aka "flyttgods" your car won't have any laws about the emissions, lights etc. because it was "road legal" in the state or country you moved from. So many american cars in Sweden don't have any strict emission test to pass so you can tune it without any problems.

Edit: I'd like to add that all cars pre -75 have no emission test at all to pass in MOT and between -75 and -89 they would only measure the CO and needs to be max 4.5%.

[Cola]

If you are unsure of the rules in your country, you should keep it the way it came from the factory. The cat keeps CO2 emissions down, which is one of the reasons why it has become pretty important.

[SO•Audiojack]

As far as I know, in Finland cars are so called "low-emission vehicles" only if newer than 1996 or if they have a mention of it in the registration papers.

Cars that are not "low-emission vehicles" can pass MOT without a catalysator if they pass the MOT emission tests (the regulations for the test vary with a cars age, cars newer than 1986 have stricter regulations than before that and new cars with OBD systems have even stricter regulations.)

Nobody cares whether or not you have a catalysator when you're not in the MOT though so people usually just take it out and stick a catalysator replacement pipe in there... When inspection time comes, just unbolt the replacement pipe and put the stock cat back there (and maybe adjust the engine management if required to not burn the catalysator immediately depending on the level of engine tuning and systems like launch control and antilag.)

[Jimmy]

Yeah thanks, my Catalyst is broken inside in my golf now, gonna change it soon next week maybe so i will upgrade my hole exhause system to 2" inch with endpipes 2.5" inch i hope it will sound good not to damn loud haha.

[[TC]►Leon◄]

Removing the catalytic converter from a stock engine won't increase performance and if your lambda sensor is mounted after the converter, the ECU will go into safe mode and reduce horsepower. If the sensor is before, then replace the cat with a pipe. You won't have any issues other then failing the MOT if you show up without one. Unsure what the legal consequenses are for it in Sweden, though.

Don't put a big exhaust on an old Golf. Waste of time, money and effort. Start off with buying a car that has the power you want and work from there. Cars in Sweden are dirt cheap anyway.

[Jimmy]

(2013-11-24 10:15)Leon Wrote:  Removing the catalytic converter from a stock engine won't increase performance and if your lambda sensor is mounted after the converter, the ECU will go into safe mode and reduce horsepower. If the sensor is before, then replace the cat with a pipe. You won't have any issues other then failing the MOT if you show up without one. Unsure what the legal consequenses are for it in Sweden, though.

Don't put a big exhaust on an old Golf. Waste of time, money and effort. Start off with buying a car that has the power you want and work from there. Cars in Sweden are dirt cheap anyway.

Yeah but my lamdba sensor is not mounted on Catalyst its little higher up on exhauset system so i just could remove it and put in new one

[SO•Audiojack]

By the way, I don't know how efficiently VW develops their exhaust systems for the base models but if you remove exhaust restriction from your STOCK car it might actually effect your torque negatively due to loss of back pressure.

(Again, I don't know if Volkswagen has tuned their engine management to take advantage of the restriction that a catalysator creates but I'm assuming so.)

In a car like yours, a daily driver and all with no real excess power or torque to speak of, I would say the low end torque is much more desirable than pure peak power output.

And to be honest, I would only remove the catalysator if it was in danger of getting damaged by raw fuel or excess heat (antilag, ignition cut rev limiters and launchers etc. as I mentioned before.)

Just get a new cat from Biltema or something and you will atleast pass MOT inspections with your car...

[Jimmy]

(2013-11-24 13:27)Audiojack Wrote:  By the way, I don't know how efficiently VW develops their exhaust systems for the base models but if you remove exhaust restriction from your STOCK car it might actually effect your torque negatively due to loss of back pressure.

(Again, I don't know if Volkswagen has tuned their engine management to take advantage of the restriction that a catalysator creates but I'm assuming so.)

In a car like yours, a daily driver and all with no real excess power or torque to speak of, I would say the low end torque is much more desirable than pure peak power output.

And to be honest, I would only remove the catalysator if it was in danger of getting damaged by raw fuel or excess heat (antilag, ignition cut rev limiters and launchers etc. as I mentioned before.)

Just get a new cat from Biltema or something and you will atleast pass MOT inspections with your car...

I have found cheaper one not from Biltema same i have on golf now for around 600Euro its cheap for orginal, only gonna get new endpipe i think so maybe no need to upgrade hole exhause system.

[SO•Audiojack]

(2013-11-24 14:13)Jimmy Wrote:  I have found cheaper one not from Biltema same i have on golf now for around 600Euro its cheap for orginal

600 euros? Are you sure? Because that's super expensive.

[Jimmy]

(2013-11-24 15:16)Audiojack Wrote:  

(2013-11-24 14:13)Jimmy Wrote:  I have found cheaper one not from Biltema same i have on golf now for around 600Euro its cheap for orginal

600 euros? Are you sure? Because that's super expensive.

still not good with English money haha but its 600kr in Sweden.

[Dowpy]

(2013-11-24 15:25)Jimmy Wrote:  

(2013-11-24 15:16)Audiojack Wrote:  

(2013-11-24 14:13)Jimmy Wrote:  I have found cheaper one not from Biltema same i have on golf now for around 600Euro its cheap for orginal

600 euros? Are you sure? Because that's super expensive.

still not good with English money haha but its 600kr in Sweden.

1 Euro is like 10kr

[Blade3562]

Volkswagen base model motors 1.5s, 1.6s, 1.7s 1.8s (non turbo) and 2.0s all will be fine without backpressure. My rabbit gained between 15-20 hp removing the cat and having a tuned muffler. The key to power is flow of air without turbulence.

Now on the legal side. In the US technically (depending on state) you need to leave the cat on for the life of the car if it came with one. But after a car is 25 years you are allowed to move it to keep it running because they get clogged etc.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, me and dad thinking to swap my engine in golf next year to a G60 with compressor to and its has 220hp, but its still same engine 1.8 Liters but it still will need catalyst for it

[Blade3562]

G60 might need cat for backpressure. Qnd aren't g60s also based on 2.0s?

[Jimmy]

(2013-11-24 19:05)Blade3562 Wrote:  G60 might need cat for backpressure. Qnd aren't g60s also based on 2.0s?

No its same 1.8 just modded to fit a compressor in it to and can add a turbo if you want to can easly get 300hp more but 220hp is enough for a golf

[SO•Audiojack]

Engines with forced induction usually aren't as picky about the exhaust back pressure.

[[TC]►Leon◄]

+1 Audiojack. They prefer free flow.

[Jimmy]

yeah no need big exhause system with small engine can lose power and that but with race catalyst and 2.5" exhause system can add little extra or just 2.0" system can be good to.

[Johan.]

Catalytic

Sorry, just got a bit annoyed by it after reading it a couple of hundred times.