- Ban duration changed (Unban Request Denied by Carl)

[Bagpuss2]

username: Bagpuss

Time & Date: Unknown - post-ban

Replay: N/A

Last week I received a one week ban after a disagreement with one of the TC admins over trying to ram my way out of a road block mid chase. I can now see it's been extended to 120 days, I'm wondering why?

[[TC]►BP◄]

It was extended per the original admin's requests. The original admin could not issue the full 120 days himself.

[Bagpuss2]

I see, so the next question is why does the aforementioned issue warrant a 120 day ban?

[[TC]►BP◄]

The administrator who originally issued your ban has been notified
Please be patient whilst this request is reviewed.

[[TC]►Carl◄]

I have acknowledged your request
Please be patient during this review, I will reply in due course.

[[TC]►Carl◄]

The 120 days was issued based upon the following:

• Your history with regards to ramming.
• Your gaming time, which by now you shouldn't really be finding yourself in this situation.
• Your attitude on the server and your unwillingness to understand what you were doing was wrong, you just kept arguing against me.
  

I will reiterate what I was trying to get across to you on the server. Ramming is strictly forbidden, even if there is a roadblock ahead. Yes, you can use moderate force to break through a roadblock but this isn't an excuse to ram civilians. You should at least avoid any civilians nearby as they are not involved with the chase. This ram could have been avoided but you chose not to avoid it and as a result, disrupted that players experience.

Once the chase had ended you began purposefully crashing into the cops who were in your chase. Once again, ramming is not allowed. The chase being active or not is still irrelevant.

This is why a 120 day ban was put in place.

[Bagpuss2]

Previous problems on these servers have all been dealt with and, as far as I was aware, are in the past.

I am aware of the point you were trying to get across, however you were failing to take on board my points, which I reiterated several times to you before you banned me.

Ramming of civs in a chase is not allowed, this was accepted, however if you set up a roadblock on a blind corner with no chance of me avoiding it or the people waiting at it, and did not put up any traffic stop warnings, how am I to avoid a collision with a civ?

As for the ramming of cops I was doing it to attempt an escape of being blocked in, you have stated moderate force is allowed, so this is left as a grey area, I dont believe I used excessive force to break out of being boxed in, just enough to push another car out of the way.

After said chase I pitted as my car was damaged and undriveable, this is a point you refused to accept, but it is fact.

[[TC]►Carl◄]

I'm willing to provide you with a replay and time stamps if you would like to refresh yourself on it, but here are some screenshots.

Spoiler (Click to View)

I'm not sure why you didn't react to that at all, in fact, when you saw the civilian you accelerated even more.

You were busted at this point.

You began ramming cops after the chase had ended, THEN you returned to pits.

[Bagpuss2]

Your screenshots are pretty misleading, the first shot you don't show the hot tyres or the oversteer and shows no timeframe between clearing the blind corner and getting to the roadblock. Also note my original point of having nowhere to go at this stage in the chase, cops behind, barriers to the left, wall to the right, the only option is to try going through.

The second point was the ramming in question, still in chase, I was pushing other cars out of the way to try and escape.

The third screenshot is just me driving away before pitting, you can clearly see by the damage that my vehicle is not driveable / controllable at this point.

[[TC]►Carl◄]

(2017-12-03 22:27)Bagpuss2 Wrote:  Your screenshots are pretty misleading, the first shot you don't show the hot tyres or the oversteer

This is still your responsibility to control your car and avoid any crashes.

(2017-12-03 22:27)Bagpuss2 Wrote:  and shows no timeframe between clearing the blind corner and getting to the roadblock.

The screenshot shows at which point you were able to see the roadblock. It's safe to assume that you were not travelling at god-like speeds around a corner in over steer.

(2017-12-03 22:27)Bagpuss2 Wrote:  Also note my original point of having nowhere to go at this stage in the chase, cops behind, barriers to the left, wall to the right, the only option is to try going through.

Then unfortunately for you, the cops have won. Because you have no where to go doesn't permit you to break the rules of the server.

(2017-12-03 22:27)Bagpuss2 Wrote:  The second point was the ramming in question, still in chase, I was pushing other cars out of the way to try and escape.

All cops turned off their sirens and returned to patrolling after they released you.

(2017-12-03 22:27)Bagpuss2 Wrote:  The third screenshot is just me driving away before pitting, you can clearly see by the damage that my vehicle is not driveable / controllable at this point.

You are driving straight into a cop.

Just please review the replay I have sent in a PM before you continue, thanks.

[Bagpuss2]

(2017-12-03 22:39)Carl Wrote:  

(2017-12-03 22:27)Bagpuss2 Wrote:  Your screenshots are pretty misleading, the first shot you don't show the hot tyres or the oversteer

This is still your responsibility to control your car and avoid any crashes.

(2017-12-03 22:27)Bagpuss2 Wrote:  and shows no timeframe between clearing the blind corner and getting to the roadblock.

The screenshot shows at which point you were able to see the roadblock. It's safe to assume that you were not travelling at god-like speeds around a corner in over steer.

(2017-12-03 22:27)Bagpuss2 Wrote:  Also note my original point of having nowhere to go at this stage in the chase, cops behind, barriers to the left, wall to the right, the only option is to try going through.

Then unfortunately for you, the cops have won. Because you have no where to go doesn't permit you to break the rules of the server.

(2017-12-03 22:27)Bagpuss2 Wrote:  The second point was the ramming in question, still in chase, I was pushing other cars out of the way to try and escape.

All cops turned off their sirens and returned to patrolling after they released you.

(2017-12-03 22:27)Bagpuss2 Wrote:  The third screenshot is just me driving away before pitting, you can clearly see by the damage that my vehicle is not driveable / controllable at this point.

You are driving straight into a cop.

Just please review the replay I have sent in a PM before you continue, thanks.

I am unable to access the file you have sent, can you use a different file sharing site? Also replied by PM

[Bagpuss2]

Okay I have watched the replay, and I still stand by my defence, watch it back in cockpit view (how I drive) and I think you will have a better appreciation for what I'm saying.

The road block was on a blind corner, I was oversteering at 70-80mph as can be seen, and was given two seconds between seeing the road block and trying to take action, as all options were removed I had to try and get through, it wasn't me ramming randomers, it was me attempting to escape.

At the boxing stage I am just trying to escape, I didn't ram anyone, I just tried pushing cars out the way. I was rammed heavily several times as can clearly be seen in the replay, but I don't have an issue with that, just shows the extent of the damage caused to my vehicle.

The third point I still don't understand, I've tried driving away, my car is uncontrollable, so I've pitted, what's the problem?

[[TC]►Carl◄]

(2017-12-04 21:47)Bagpuss2 Wrote:  Okay I have watched the replay, and I still stand by my defence, watch it back in cockpit view (how I drive) and I think you will have a better appreciation for what I'm saying.

The road block was on a blind corner, I was oversteering at 70-80mph as can be seen, and was given two seconds between seeing the road block and trying to take action, as all options were removed I had to try and get through, it wasn't me ramming randomers, it was me attempting to escape.

You didn't have to try and get through, nor did you try to evade anything. You didn't touch your brake at all before the crash. Your were also travelling well below what you've just stated. Like I've already said, being in a chase is not an excuse for disrupting other peoples experience.

(2017-12-04 21:47)Bagpuss2 Wrote:  At the boxing stage I am just trying to escape, I didn't ram anyone, I just tried pushing cars out the way. I was rammed heavily several times as can clearly be seen in the replay, but I don't have an issue with that, just shows the extent of the damage caused to my vehicle.

After the boxing stage.

(2017-12-04 21:47)Bagpuss2 Wrote:  The third point I still don't understand, I've tried driving away, my car is uncontrollable, so I've pitted, what's the problem?

This is what you seem to be avoiding, I won't keep repeating myself.

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