[Rejected] Auto-warning/fine/kick when speaking non-English in public chat

[Marty_Deslions]

(poll got removed)

Many of us know that there is a rule that states that player must speak English in public chat. It can be a nuisance when players are having extensive conversations in a language you don't understand.

As far as I know, currently the insim does not hold any consequences to people having full blown non-English conversations in mainchat. Sure, admins who are online can adress people doing that. And sure, admins can read back the chat via the chatlog. But what if neither of these admin-initiated actions are being performed? (e.g. when no admin is online nor available)

I am proposing the idea of the insim recognizing full blown non-English conversations, and giving the offenders minor or major consequences depending on the seriousness and duration of that violation. The insim already recognizes foreign languages, hence the translate command (!t). If people are having full blown conversations in mainchat in anything but English, the insim could give a confirmable auto-warning to that player. If that player keeps on violating that rule, he/she could get auto-fined or auto-kicked by insim. Now I am not suggesting the insim should do this immediately with anything that's being said that's not English. So for instance a "siema" or "ar7b" when someone joins, should not be insta-punished. So is anything else that is not somewhat of a sentence. But if a player says an X amount of non-English words in a short time, the insim could recognize this and act accordingly.

This whole idea can take work off the hands of admins, and improve the overall gameplay experience on all TC servers (LFS).

[[TC]►BP◄]

I think this would be more difficult to implement (insim-wise) than expected. If it would be reasonably easy and minimal chance of false-positives then I'd support it.

[Felipe Jardim]

I voted NO but not because of the reason you stated. It's a simple rule, and it's not allowed as is. Just like being racist or disrespectful, speaking another language in the main chat requires impulse control from the user. If rules are violated the actors will be dealt with.

[Dino]

We'd need a whitelist for S I E M a, ar7777777777777777777777777777777777b etc. tho

[Marty_Deslions]

(2024-06-26 12:17)Felipe Jardim Wrote:  If rules are violated the actors will be dealt with.

Admins are not always online/available. Imo its easier when the insim can automaticly do this.

[[RDSR] Ali]

KfOooO about that marty Tslm

[Felipe Jardim]

(2024-06-26 17:30)Marty_Deslions Wrote:  

(2024-06-26 12:17)Felipe Jardim Wrote:  If rules are violated the actors will be dealt with.

Admins are not always online/available. Imo its easier when the insim can automaticly do this.

I agree with you that most of the times it is easier for the insim to deal with an issue (such as repetitive swearing as an example) but this is too easy to get false positives out of as BP said. There are times where people may unwillingly or unknowingly speak another language either because they forgot the "!ch" or they didn't depress SHIFT quick enough so it came out as a "1ch", which I've seen that happen plenty of times. You also have to think about new players who might not know the rules regarding English

[Marty_Deslions]

(2024-06-26 20:58)Felipe Jardim Wrote:  

(2024-06-26 17:30)Marty_Deslions Wrote:  

(2024-06-26 12:17)Felipe Jardim Wrote:  If rules are violated the actors will be dealt with.

Admins are not always online/available. Imo its easier when the insim can automaticly do this.

I agree with you that most of the times it is easier for the insim to deal with an issue (such as repetitive swearing as an example) but this is too easy to get false positives out of as BP said. There are times where people may unwillingly or unknowingly speak another language either because they forgot the "!ch" or they didn't depress SHIFT quick enough so it came out as a "1ch", which I've seen that happen plenty of times. You also have to think about new players who might not know the rules regarding English

Yes thats why I would suggest the insim doesnt immediately "punish" the player. But rather after 2 or 3 sentences a confirmable warning. This way the new player knows about the rule and then can decide to change his mainchat behavior.
It would indeed be a bad idea to immediately punish people when they make small mistakes like 1ch instead of !ch

[Samet]

no ty pro idea creater.

[[TC]►BP◄]

(2024-06-27 09:55)Samet Wrote:  no ty pro idea creater.

Try to respond constructively. No need for sarcastic messages either. Please don't respond to this post, feel free to PM if you don't understand.

[[TC]►Nick◄]

While I understand the motivation for your suggestion, and in theory I think it’s sound, I think there are too many variables for this to be successfully implemented. Heck, just yesterday I asked someone to help me speak to a rule breaker in their native language just to get their attention, under your idea that would’ve resulted in the insim taking action.

As an aside, sometimes your poll options are worded in a way that is biased towards a certain result, usually the one you’re wanting. You may find a better reception to your suggestions if the options take a neutral stance.

[[RDSR] Robis]

There are admins for it to be controlled, if no admin is online there is report system for that.

[Marty_Deslions]

(2024-06-27 12:20)Nick Wrote:  As an aside, sometimes your poll options are worded in a way that is biased towards a certain result, usually the one you’re wanting. You may find a better reception to your suggestions if the options take a neutral stance.

Gotcha.

tbh when creating this I wasn't even thinking of having the insim potentially failing / false positives at this mainchat issue. So that's why I thought a "fair agrument" for not wanting this suggetion would be because some people may want speak other languages in mainchat. But it seems people also want to say no for other reasons.

Thanks for pointing this out.



@BP @Chuck
Could you edit the second answer from "No. Allow people to speak non-English in mainchat." to: "No" or something else that encourages users to write some feedback as to why to voted no.
Or rather remove the poll all together. If people want to share their opinion and give constructe feedback, let them say it in a comment.

[[TC]►BP◄]

Poll removed. You can start a fresh one if you want, but it's not a requirement.
Also I believe you had multi-choice on. That didn't make sense with the poll options you had.

[TheStigUSA]

I'm rather late to this one, but would like to give a +1 on the comment regarding the technical challenge for this kind of feature. To implement this kind of system would be a rather extreme development effort with a very difficult job to do in order to achieve any level of success.

From my experience, the 'English' used in chat is most often far away from being perfect, typos occur and plus since people typically chat while also driving, users try to be concise about communication. The development juggle of trying to figure out what typos or internet slangs jive with the 'English' requirement would be basically developmentally impossible.

[Marty_Deslions]

Okay how about this.

Once the insim detects a person speaking full sentences in an other language in mainchat, he/she could receive a confirmable warning that English must be spoken in mainchat.

Something like:


"Dear <username>,

It seems you are speaking a language other than English. In the mainchat only English is allowed. Please read the rules https://world.city-driving.co.uk/?page=rules

Thanks"



Getting a confirmable warning may be enough nuisance for a player to adjust his speaking behavior.

Plus, it can even be automaticly added to the URS thing so admins could look back and see that a person received this warning.

[[TC]►BP◄]

I don't think the insim would be capable of efficiently identifying whether a user is speaking full sentences in a foreign language. I believe Chuck also confirmed this internally some months ago.

[Marty_Deslions]

(2024-09-04 11:06)BP Wrote:  I don't think the insim would be capable of efficiently identifying whether a user is speaking full sentences in a foreign language. I believe Chuck also confirmed this internally some months ago.

I'm sorry, but I find that difficult to believe.

The insim can detect various languages, hence the !t command is working.

But even if what you (and Chuck) say is true, a confimable warning would still be okay right? Like, even if you speak poorly english and the insim somehow detects it as some foreign language, a confimable warning would not be that big of a deal. Also maybe it could he like those messages you now see in mainchat: "person so and so (most likely) caused a ww crash".
So instead of the insim giving a definitive judgement in the warning, the warning message could be something like "you (most likely) talk in a different language than English".
When in doubt, admins can look back in the chat logs.

A confimable warning isn't too serious, the player doesn't get banned or kicked, but rather a small reminder to speak English.

[◄Chuck►]

(2024-09-04 11:59)Marty_Deslions Wrote:  The insim can detect various languages, hence the !t command is working.

Insim does not detect any language. Whenever you type !t, I simply send whatever you 've entered to Microsoft and they try to translate it. I have no idea what you've entered, can be words, can be garbage, can be dutch, can be english.

[Marty_Deslions]

(2024-09-04 12:11)Chuck Wrote:  Insim does not detect any language. Whenever you type !t, I simply send whatever you 've entered to Microsoft and they try to translate it. I have no idea what you've entered, can be words, can be garbage, can be dutch, can be english.

Ahh, I understand now. Thanks for clearing it up