[TC] Gaming Forums

Hey All,

I've been thinking into the current rules behind Role-play vehicles and after reading through some old threads detailing the debates going on between members about how they should work - I've come up with what I think would be the best course of action for the server in regards to MED and RES.

Here are my main points and suggestions for change;

• A feature allowing MEDs to respond to an emergency should be added to the InSim - A MED should be able to respond to an accident when a major crash has occoured. Their job will be to secure the scene of the crash by making it high-visibility (Using Hazard[+/-]).
• A MED should be given the same street rights as a COP - MEDs should be allowed to pass traffic and should gain priority on the road when in a state of Emergency. This state of emergency is only accessible when responding to a call, they should be able to respond to a 'call' when a 'major crash' is reported, at which time they are able to use Siren[+/-] and legally use strobes, once at the scene, their rights to use Siren[+/-] are revoked until another major incident is reported.
• To counter any abuse of this system, there should be a limit of the number of MEDs allowed on the server in relation to how populated the server is at that time, I'd say 3 MEDs maximum on a fully populated server.
• To further counter any abuse, if a members COP rights are revoked so are their MED rights.
• RES should be completely dropped and should not receive any sort of recognition, if a member still wishes to use this tag then fine, but it gives them no extra rights or privileges (Not that it does anyway). This is due to the fact that it would perform no job that MED/COP/TOW doesn't already and thus shouldn't be given any recognition.
• TOW should no longer be able to use Hazard[+/-] - This is due to the fact that a TOW shouldn't need this, the Job of the TOW is to clear the accident, it should be the MEDs job to safe-guard it.
• A MEDs state of emergency should time out after a few minutes to counter abuse, it should not take longer than this to reach the scene anyway.
  

Example of how the system would work:

1. Major crash between <A> & <B> @ <Location>
   (A Medic Can now respond by using !Respond or similar).
2. Medic <NAME> is on route.
   (The Medic is now in a state of Emergency and can thus take full priority on the road and attend the scene)
3. Medic <NAME> is on Scene.
   (The Medic has now had his state of Emergency revoked and can no longer take priority over traffic (I.e. Cannot use Siren[+/-] anymore). The medic should now set up a Hazard sign to warn traffic before the TOW arrives and should call one if not already called and if one is needed).
   • The big rule that this would create:
     • A MED must only use Stobe & Sirens WHEN IN A STATE OF EMERGENCY.
       
     The reason for my suggestion is the fact that I really like TC for it's realism, and I believe that since a Paramedic is an Emergency vehicle, it should gain emergency priority on the road and could be used to perform a good job on the server, and I hope that the points raised in this suggestion can help to change the minds of people that feel the MED tag would be abused and would lead to people ignoring COPs if given privileges such as this. If it's treated like an emergency vehicle in the first place, then there should be no reason for anyone ignoring a COP or a MED, and if the proper systems are in place, then abusing the MED tag should be just as hard as abusing the COP tag.
     
     Your thoughts, Ideas and Criticisms would be appreciated! =)
     
     Regards,
     
     Kiz.

I really like your idea Kiz. Its simple but effective and it works. +1

Keep up the good work!

First of all, I'd like to mention, that I really appreciate the amount of time and effort it seems you've put into this thread. It takes a good thread to kick things off sometimes, and it's quite impressive for your 2nd post. Now I have never entered in the MED discussion before but I think this is a good leeway and I'd like to address some of your points and make some of my own.

I very much agree to your first point. I often will try to secure the roadway when an accident has occured, while operating as any emergency unit. It can be quite beneficial especially when it happens on high speed blind corners, such as westbound Hillside Road, where vehicles often hit the barriers and flip, while traffic may be doing in excess of 200kph. While some people disrespect caution and even hazards, this is where rule 1.13, and 1.14 come into affect. I totally agree with you there, and having insim capabilities for being apart in a !calltow or a different kind of scenario would be great.

I have some major reservations with giving them the right of way over other traffic. I think this is where TC has had a lot of play between what's realistic vs. what's practical. I think that being a [MED] is a lot different from being a [COP] in this aspect. A cop has very little time to clear intersections, and get around traffic when pursuing a suspect. A MED on the other hand should almost never be at an at-fault accident, as they are able to use strobes and sirens to approach, clear, and continue through. I don't think they necessarily need an insim siren as cops do. And also, if a MED would be able to have such high priority status, there would need to be very clear guidelines and rules for them. But if they were to be broken what would we do? Revoke cop rights? Revoke MED rights? But then how would they get them back... it seems like a whole new system would need to be put in place to accommodate, but perhaps I'm being a bit short-sighted.

I agree there are some clear distinctions between TOW and MED in terms of duties, however, as some have brought up in the past, in real life, paramedics generally do not secure the scene. I'm a volunteer medical first responder (St. John Ambulance) and I was taught that you are the most important person, you never put yourself in harms way, otherwise the person who needs help will not get it if you get injured. This is then a bit counter-intuitive. However, the actual medic is not entirely necessary from this point of view, and perhaps we are thinking more of a Highways Agency sort of deal - as we already have, but it is currently [TC] only. That's something that I would think would make a tad more sense.

Woah long post, last paragraph, don't worry. I don't think that the heavy crash system you're referring to is really indicative of the need for a MED unit. Really - it's just to warn drivers where a large accident has occured. 90% of the time, it's an accident both users can drive away from. I think the current !calltow system is a better fit for what this would be trying to accomplish. Anyhow - I think we need this type of a role on the servers, but it really needs to be addressed better, these are great ideas, but I think that there are some issues that would need to be addressed.

If you read this fully, I applaud you for caring so much.

(2012-08-30 02:13)Bez Wrote: [ -> ]I really like your idea Kiz. Its simple but effective and it works. +1

Keep up the good work!

=) Thanks for the feedback! =)

(2012-08-30 02:17)Sinoco Wrote: [ -> ]First of all, I'd like to mention, that I really appreciate the amount of time and effort it seems you've put into this thread. It takes a good thread to kick things off sometimes, and it's quite impressive for your 2nd post. Now I have never entered in the MED discussion before but I think this is a good leeway and I'd like to address some of your points and make some of my own.

I very much agree to your first point. I often will try to secure the roadway when an accident has occured, while operating as any emergency unit. It can be quite beneficial especially when it happens on high speed blind corners, such as westbound Hillside Road, where vehicles often hit the barriers and flip, while traffic may be doing in excess of 200kph. While some people disrespect caution and even hazards, this is where rule 1.13, and 1.14 come into affect. I totally agree with you there, and having insim capabilities for being apart in a !calltow or a different kind of scenario would be great.

I have some major reservations with giving them the right of way over other traffic. I think this is where TC has had a lot of play between what's realistic vs. what's practical. I think that being a [MED] is a lot different from being a [COP] in this aspect. A cop has very little time to clear intersections, and get around traffic when pursuing a suspect. A MED on the other hand should almost never be at an at-fault accident, as they are able to use strobes and sirens to approach, clear, and continue through. I don't think they necessarily need an insim siren as cops do. And also, if a MED would be able to have such high priority status, there would need to be very clear guidelines and rules for them. But if they were to be broken what would we do? Revoke cop rights? Revoke MED rights? But then how would they get them back... it seems like a whole new system would need to be put in place to accommodate, but perhaps I'm being a bit short-sighted.

I agree there are some clear distinctions between TOW and MED in terms of duties, however, as some have brought up in the past, in real life, paramedics generally do not secure the scene. I'm a volunteer medical first responder (St. John Ambulance) and I was taught that you are the most important person, you never put yourself in harms way, otherwise the person who needs help will not get it if you get injured. This is then a bit counter-intuitive. However, the actual medic is not entirely necessary from this point of view, and perhaps we are thinking more of a Highways Agency sort of deal - as we already have, but it is currently [TC] only. That's something that I would think would make a tad more sense.

Woah long post, last paragraph, don't worry. I don't think that the heavy crash system you're referring to is really indicative of the need for a MED unit. Really - it's just to warn drivers where a large accident has occured. 90% of the time, it's an accident both users can drive away from. I think the current !calltow system is a better fit for what this would be trying to accomplish. Anyhow - I think we need this type of a role on the servers, but it really needs to be addressed better, these are great ideas, but I think that there are some issues that would need to be addressed.

If you read this fully, I applaud you for caring so much.

Wow! Lot's of feedback! And I read it fully! This is my 2nd post on the *new* forum, I used to post on the old forum when I was active in 2010 xD Never got around to signing up to the new one until today, only became active again recently.

I would agree with near enough everything you said, but I still do firmly believe that the MED should be allowed traffic priority, as this distinguishes them as an emergency vehicle, which is what they are meant to be, but I do completely understand where you are coming from. I do believe heavy guidelines, rules and systems could be put in place to stop this being abused though.

I also used to volunteer for St.Johns when I was younger! And I completely understand where you are coming from in that sense too, but using a MED to secure a scene seems like the only use for them, it's not like they can repair the vehicles or anything like that.

And as for the major accident, I think I agree with you on that too... Maybe the !calltow feature could be utilized in some way too!

Thanks for your amazing feedback! =)

Regards,

Kiz.

Sounds like a good idea! Just i dont really think MED's need the insim siren as that may give people a reason to just drive like an idiot on the way to a incident, possibly causing another one.

But i love the rest!!

(2012-08-30 01:31)Kiz Wrote: [ -> ][*] To counter any abuse of this system, there should be a limit of the number of MEDs allowed on the server in relation to how populated the server is at that time, I'd say 3 MEDs maximum on a fully populated server.

[*] To further counter any abuse, if a members COP rights are revoked so are their MED rights.

This would not counter abuse, only reduce the number of people who can abuse it at any one time to 3, and people who have not been caught being a bad cop I the past.

The scope for abuse is my main concern with any MED idea in the past, and I haven't read a suggestion which guarantees little possibility for abuse yet. If you can think of a way without too much modification to insim, then you will have a winner.

(2012-08-30 18:26)Lewis Wrote: [ -> ]Sounds like a good idea! Just i dont really think MED's need the insim siren as that may give people a reason to just drive like an idiot on the way to a incident, possibly causing another one.

But i love the rest!!

Thanks for the feedback! =)

(2012-08-31 14:36)Nitros Wrote: [ -> ]

(2012-08-30 01:31)Kiz Wrote: [ -> ][*] To counter any abuse of this system, there should be a limit of the number of MEDs allowed on the server in relation to how populated the server is at that time, I'd say 3 MEDs maximum on a fully populated server.

[*] To further counter any abuse, if a members COP rights are revoked so are their MED rights.

This would not counter abuse, only reduce the number of people who can abuse it at any one time to 3, and people who have not been caught being a bad cop I the past.

The scope for abuse is my main concern with any MED idea in the past, and I haven't read a suggestion which guarantees little possibility for abuse yet. If you can think of a way without too much modification to insim, then you will have a winner.

That's where the 'State of emergency system could come into play, It would allow the MEDs to only use their rights when they have clearly stated that they are responding to an incident. It would require changes to the InSim, but they're not really huge changes, I doubt chuck would need help implementing them, but if he didn't want to implement a huge amount then I'd be willing to help out if he requested it.

The idea behind allowing only 3 MEDs at a time was to stop everyone from being a MED just to use sirens.

I think that the scope for abuse is small if handled properly, I'd be willing to set-up a MED training course in my free time if needed and it could be a very organized role on the server. I think there needs to be a certain amount of trust on the server, if people choose to abuse that trust then they can deal with the punishment same way as COPs do. I feel that it's very silly to not implement new features purely because of the fact that the minority might abuse them. =)

Regards,

Kiz.

@ I'd be willing to set-up a MED training course in my free time if needed and it could be a very organized role on the server.

I am pretty sure you could help the training team sort out some kind of course, for those who loose their rights.
+
What kind of selection would be active? lets say there are 3 MEDs do they all go at once to the crash or do they get selected at random?

See also previous discussion here: http://forum.city-driving.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=236 particularly in the later, more recent posts.

(2012-08-31 17:52)Bez Wrote: [ -> ]@ I'd be willing to set-up a MED training course in my free time if needed and it could be a very organized role on the server.

I am pretty sure you could help the training team sort out some kind of course, for those who loose their rights.
+
What kind of selection would be active? lets say there are 3 MEDs do they all go at once to the crash or do they get selected at random?

Well, It could be the same as how most of the other systems work, I.E. First come first serve, but could also be random, it would entirely depend on what people prefer and what the admins feel is most suitable... =)

(2012-08-31 20:07)Elmo Wrote: [ -> ]See also previous discussion here: http://forum.city-driving.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=236 particularly in the later, more recent posts.

Seen that and read through it before posting this thread. I made sure I'd had a look through the forums before I posted. =) Thanks though!

Regards,

Kiz.

(2012-08-31 17:52)Bez Wrote: [ -> ]@ I'd be willing to set-up a MED training course in my free time if needed and it could be a very organized role on the server.

I would love to help Bez, because before I started policing, all I ever did was drive around being a medic, and I'd like to share my experience with other people. Maybe me and you should set up a plan?

Its Good Idea , but i dont like you need COP rights for MED .

I like it.

(2012-09-03 14:27)Rainis . Wrote: [ -> ]Its Good Idea , but i dont like you need COP rights for MED .

ofc, otherwise those who have lost their cop rights will just be driving as med with the siren on or something.

(2012-09-03 14:27)Rainis . Wrote: [ -> ]Its Good Idea , but i dont like you need COP rights for MED .

I agree, because people who have lost their cop rights for a while (me ) haven't got alot to do around the server, and as I loved being cop so much, being a medic will make the server alot more fun and interesting for me

(2012-09-03 15:24)Kyllone Wrote: [ -> ]I like it.

(2012-09-03 14:27)Rainis . Wrote: [ -> ]Its Good Idea , but i dont like you need COP rights for MED .

ofc, otherwise those who have lost their cop rights will just be driving as med with the siren on or something.

(2012-08-30 01:31)Kiz Wrote: [ -> ][*] A MED should be given the same street rights as a COP - MEDs should be allowed to pass traffic and should gain priority on the road when in a state of Emergency. This state of emergency is only accessible when responding to a call, they should be able to respond to a 'call' when a 'major crash' is reported, at which time they are able to use Siren[+/-] and legally use strobes, once at the scene, their rights to use Siren[+/-] are revoked until another major incident is reported.

[*] A MEDs state of emergency should time out after a few minutes to counter abuse, it should not take longer than this to reach the scene anyway.
[/list]

The big rule that this would create:

• A MED must only use Stobe & Sirens WHEN IN A STATE OF EMERGENCY.
  

Surely they cant abuse something that only lasts 1-4 minutes at the most.
+
If they did they would loose the right to be a [MED] Its their own fault in the end. I understand that cops get 3 chances because its a copping server.. But MED's can just have one chance? Why give anymore..

(2012-08-31 17:18)Kiz Wrote: [ -> ]The idea behind allowing only 3 MEDs at a time was to stop everyone from being a MED just to use sirens.

So you see there is a problem, and your response is to limit the problem to only 3 people at a time?

That isn't an acceptable way of dealing with the issue, as I hope you understand?

If you (or anyone) can think of a way to limit the problem to 0 people at a time - then we may have success, but I can't think of it..

(2012-09-03 14:14)Lukey747 Wrote: [ -> ]

(2012-08-31 17:52)Bez Wrote: [ -> ]@ I'd be willing to set-up a MED training course in my free time if needed and it could be a very organized role on the server.

I would love to help Bez, because before I started policing, all I ever did was drive around being a medic, and I'd like to share my experience with other people. Maybe me and you should set up a plan?

Have a word with Kiz. He's the one with the idea.

+

"So you see there is a problem, and your response is to limit the problem to only 3 people at a time?
That isn't an acceptable way of dealing with the issue, as I hope you understand?"

There's no need to limit it at all.. Just as the !join would work it would be the same when you !join a chase.. First come first served. Obviously MED's will have to follow road laws just like the cops do and also they wouldn't be able to use sirens willy nilly as they only can activate them when state of emergency is activated? So therefore you wouldn't have MED's speeding around with visual sirens, because they cant use them anyway unless they have !joined the emergency...

You could also implant a method where if its not a serious crash and they aren't blocking the road they just use !calltow and for serious crashes where the road needs to be cautioned or needs hazard signs they could use !callemg < this alerts the tow and a MED at the same time.

If the admins could just say that you're allowed to use sirens as a medic, then there wouldn't be this problem.
Obviously, if someone is abusing the fact that he can use sirens, and uses them the whole time, something will be said to him?

I honestly don't see a problem in allowing medics to use audible sirens, while still being able to be chased and what not.
That's how it's always been afaik?

I agree Karak, it's always been like that.

(2012-09-03 19:22)KaraK Wrote: [ -> ]If the admins could just say that you're allowed to use sirens as a medic, then there wouldn't be this problem.
Obviously, if someone is abusing the fact that he can use sirens, and uses them the whole time, something will be said to him?

I honestly don't see a problem in allowing medics to use audible sirens, while still being able to be chased and what not.
That's how it's always been afaik?

Karak what we are trying to do here is try to get the [MED] recognized as an emergency vehicle just like the [HwA] and [VCU]. They both use visual siren as well and cannot be chased by police.

If the MED was ordered by a rule to follow the road law's when not in a state of emergency. You wont have people just running around the track with strobe and siren on. We are also trying to give the MED a real role in the TC insim so that it enhances the realism of driving.

Most crashes end up on their side/roof/crippled in the middle of the road, causing more crashes because people go 150mph everywhere. Yes you get some kind people helping out and yes police do sometimes hazard and caution the road. When I police on the server i do like to do traffic management more than chases, some others feel the same and in turn some might not.