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+--- Thread: Rule : 1.12.2 (/showthread.php?tid=26234)
RE: Rule : 1.12.2 - R.Fiets - 2017-05-24 19:50
And in the very end, problem isn't "drifting" or "arab-drifting". Problem is just driver who is/isn't seeing/caring/realising/etc...
RE: Rule : 1.12.2 - dyzio2206 - 2017-05-24 19:52
@Brad
so B and C are given about the same probabilities of avoiding a collision if i get what you say.
my point was that B is likely to crash due to reduced ability to maneuver EVEN IF he sees the car in front (car is already swinging and he uses all the traction he can get to controll sliding in conjunction with a big part of his steering capability)
and C has limited control authority due to excessive speed(not to mention les reaction time) which is more restrictive if you have to divide it between braking, steering and stabilizing the car from the excessive forces..
remember we are talking about avarage joe here no perfect setup or pro driver
Rules exist to Deal With The Majorities.. ie one time TC had A LOT of arab drift problems and desided to respond with that rule
Remember that the 1.12.1 is about drifting at RB which was a big issue once..
RE: Rule : 1.12.2 - Ghutra - 2017-05-25 02:11
(2017-05-24 15:41)dyzio2206 Wrote: so.. what is car control by definition?
making the car move in the desired path/direction at will?
making the car move with car axis being parallel to the movement axis?
having any sort -and/or amount- of directional control over the said vehicle?
And One Final Question:
who is most likely to cause a collision?
A) a driver goin at 160km/h?
B) a driver arab drifting at 120km/h?
C) a driver goin at 220?
the A is controllable with a bit of braking speed falls in a comfortable 100ish zone which makes the car more flexible to evasive maneuvers
B is slow enough already but uses countersteer to control his car and his main focus is exactly that.
C driver is overspeed, if he tries to avoid collision he will probably lose control unless he brakes very early (unlikely since he has less time to react due to speeding)
The answer is on your question lol.
The correct answers to the second is A, B and C.
A. Braking can lock up the wheels and make him spin and cause a major wreck, plus he can be going over the limit. Also I can consider he doesn't have sense of distance and can be braking slowly, but then finds out braking slightly didn't stop the car and he gets closer and closer to the car infront, so he puts the pedal to the metal to brake, locking up wheels and potentially spinning causing a wreck, making the cars behind also lock up the brakes and end up hitting him, or end up rear-ended because no time to react.
B. If you are careful enough, you can easily stabilize the car and avoid an accident, if you have a proper sense of perspective and distance. But mostly of arab drifters enjoy (including me when arab drifting on a server for that) doing near misses to cars. But arab drifters in general are reckless. Also, 120kmh on a XFG is actually fast, contrair to FXO, XRT and FZ5, where it is really slow. BUT, going 120km/h on a 160km/h AB (Kyoto) going side to side is a clear danger. Same goes to drifters.
C. Obviously will cause a collision. Also if we put this example on TC, people end up not braking and causing a Carmaggedon look-a-like accident, plus most of people is reckless on that matter, and pretty unpatient too. Not too far from IRL.
Also you should be more specific, like, going a 160km/h/220kmh on what conditions? A highway, a road, offroad, heading to an intersection with traffic lights, red light, stopped cars waiting for it to change, or stopped because of a crash? If you want to make that kind of question, be extremely specific, otherwise it doesn't have sense at all, because I can start guessing -like you see above- with that question being SO open, instead of going straight to the point with more "hints" to answer it.
Again the rule was created for a reason, same like 1.12.1. Actually, 1.12 does include Drift and Arab Drifting, altho they aren't directly mentioned, but they are still Doing Stunts.
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(2017-05-24 01:49)Renegade Wrote: big quote
"Drifting is a driving technique where the driver intentionally oversteers, with loss of traction in the rear wheels or all tires"
You are being tricked by your own definition, YES, maintaining it is controlled, but drifting isn't controlled LOL.
YOU ARE LOSING THE CONTROL OF YOUR REAR WHEELS TO DRIFT/POWERSLIDE, hello? Is it that hard to understand?.
RE: Rule : 1.12.2 - Renegade - 2017-05-25 06:22
(2017-05-25 02:11)CorsaPower Wrote:(2017-05-24 15:41)dyzio2206 Wrote: so.. what is car control by definition?
making the car move in the desired path/direction at will?
making the car move with car axis being parallel to the movement axis?
having any sort -and/or amount- of directional control over the said vehicle?
And One Final Question:
who is most likely to cause a collision?
A) a driver goin at 160km/h?
B) a driver arab drifting at 120km/h?
C) a driver goin at 220?
the A is controllable with a bit of braking speed falls in a comfortable 100ish zone which makes the car more flexible to evasive maneuvers
B is slow enough already but uses countersteer to control his car and his main focus is exactly that.
C driver is overspeed, if he tries to avoid collision he will probably lose control unless he brakes very early (unlikely since he has less time to react due to speeding)
The answer is on your question lol.
The correct answers to the second is A, B and C.
A. Braking can lock up the wheels and make him spin and cause a major wreck, plus he can be going over the limit. Also I can consider he doesn't have sense of distance and can be braking slowly, but then finds out braking slightly didn't stop the car and he gets closer and closer to the car infront, so he puts the pedal to the metal to brake, locking up wheels and potentially spinning causing a wreck, making the cars behind also lock up the brakes and end up hitting him, or end up rear-ended because no time to react.
B. If you are careful enough, you can easily stabilize the car and avoid an accident, if you have a proper sense of perspective and distance. But mostly of arab drifters enjoy (including me when arab drifting on a server for that) doing near misses to cars. But arab drifters in general are reckless. Also, 120kmh on a XFG is actually fast, contrair to FXO, XRT and FZ5, where it is really slow. BUT, going 120km/h on a 160km/h AB (Kyoto) going side to side is a clear danger. Same goes to drifters.
C. Obviously will cause a collision. Also if we put this example on TC, people end up not braking and causing a Carmaggedon look-a-like accident, plus most of people is reckless on that matter, and pretty unpatient too. Not too far from IRL.
Also you should be more specific, like, going a 160km/h/220kmh on what conditions? A highway, a road, offroad, heading to an intersection with traffic lights, red light, stopped cars waiting for it to change, or stopped because of a crash? If you want to make that kind of question, be extremely specific, otherwise it doesn't have sense at all, because I can start guessing -like you see above- with that question being SO open, instead of going straight to the point with more "hints" to answer it.
Again the rule was created for a reason, same like 1.12.1. Actually, 1.12 does include Drift and Arab Drifting, altho they aren't directly mentioned, but they are still Doing Stunts.
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(2017-05-24 01:49)Renegade Wrote: big quote
"Drifting is a driving technique where the driver intentionally oversteers, with loss of traction in the rear wheels or all tires"
You are being tricked by your own definition, YES, maintaining it is controlled, but drifting isn't controlled LOL.
YOU ARE LOSING THE CONTROL OF YOUR REAR WHEELS TO DRIFT/POWERSLIDE, hello? Is it that hard to understand?.
Are you broken?
RE: Rule : 1.12.2 - dyzio2206 - 2017-05-25 07:40
CorsaPower
1)i had the kyoto autobahn with some cars in mind when righting the post
2)Obviously we are talking about cars the majority uses(fxo/xrt/fz5) and since i never arab drift idk what speed is appropriate.
Quote:Again the rule was created for a reason, same like 1.12.1. Actually, 1.12 does include Drift and Arab Drifting, altho they aren't directly mentioned, but they are still Doing Stunts.there is no argue about that. i am just saying.
RE: Rule : 1.12.2 - Audiojack - 2017-05-25 10:34
(2017-05-25 02:11)CorsaPower Wrote: "Drifting is a driving technique where the driver intentionally oversteers, with loss of traction in the rear wheels or all tires"
You are being tricked by your own definition, YES, maintaining it is controlled, but drifting isn't controlled LOL.
YOU ARE LOSING THE CONTROL OF YOUR REAR WHEELS TO DRIFT/POWERSLIDE, hello? Is it that hard to understand?.
I've been following this thread from the sidelines and really didn't want to get tangled in the argument, but at this point I just want to know if there's anyone else here who actually agrees with this or are you just banging on about it alone?
RE: Rule : 1.12.2 - Carl - 2017-05-25 11:32
I've been following it also, I feel that the discussion is dry and there is not much else to say. Majority of the community agree with the rule change. The rule being no high speed power sliding across both lanes of traffic getting as close to cars as you can, or crashing/blocking since that's the most frequent outcome lol.
RE: Rule : 1.12.2 - Sam - 2017-05-25 15:44
(2017-05-25 02:11)CorsaPower Wrote: "Drifting is a driving technique where the driver intentionally oversteers, with loss of traction in the rear wheels or all tires"
You are being tricked by your own definition, YES, maintaining it is controlled, but drifting isn't controlled LOL.
YOU ARE LOSING THE CONTROL OF YOUR REAR WHEELS TO DRIFT/POWERSLIDE, hello? Is it that hard to understand?.
You say that it is only possible to maintain a slide and you have no real control of it? Rather narrow minded to judge everyone based of your own driving ability.
Whilst drifting I have full control over the direction and line. I also have full control over what speed I go, if I want to I can speed up, or slow down. I also have the ability to quickly adjust these things in order to avoid obstacles/other cars. This to me sounds a lot like control. Maybe you should go and educate yourself before spouting any more misinformed opinions when it is clearly obvious you lack basic knowledge.
RE: Rule : 1.12.2 - Cam - 2017-05-25 16:15
Control is more often than not dependent on one's own driving ability, whether that's arab drifting, normal drifting, or even driving on two wheels, it is irrelevant as to the form of driving, so long as you're competent.
However, that said, the very nature of arab drifting IMO requires more control (and probably to such a degree of control which requires practice to perform it safely) to PREVENT accidents as opposed to normal drifting. I therefore think restricting arab drifting to stunt zones is the closest logical, albeit, safe, solution to keep cruisers separate from such risk.
RE: Rule : 1.12.2 - dyzio2206 - 2017-05-25 16:32
so my questions still stand.
Quote:what is car control by definition?if we can't agree on these i don't think this thread is going to get to a conclusion..
making the car move in the desired path/direction at will?
making the car move with car axis being parallel to the movement axis?
having any sort -and/or amount- of directional control over the said vehicle?
problem is that any comment has it's own logic..
fact is that drift is a controlled oversteer which is an out-of-balance state of driving.
the amount of control any driver has over that state is dictated solely by the skill of the driver so it is not definite.
RE: Rule : 1.12.2 - Tingle - 2017-05-25 17:17
The fact is you're increasing your chances of crashing when drifting, why is the definition of control being so heavily focused on here?
It's also amazing that people are still bothering to discuss this. Has [TC] actually listened to any proposed rule adjustments in the past? It's just a waste of breath, just like most, if not all of the posts in the suggestions category of the forum. I can't think of any occasion where rule changes have been implemented as a result of a suggestion from a member of the community (although there might have been in the past and I'm just not aware of them).
RE: Rule : 1.12.2 - dyzio2206 - 2017-05-25 17:55
(2017-05-25 17:17)Tingle Wrote: The fact is you're increasing your chances of crashing when drifting, why is the definition of control being so heavily focused on here?
because those who suggest the change of rule 1.12.2 (regarding arab drift) are saying 2 things
1. it is ok i can control my car and i have as many chances to cause an accident while arab drifting as any guy driving normally so unban arab drift -or whatever-
2. if i am not allowed to arab drift on road they should not drift on road too.. so either extend the rule to drifters too or delete it alltogether
anyway.. my view is that if anyone wants to arab drift or drift he shouldn't do it when the possibility of traffic collision is pressent..
RE: Rule : 1.12.2 - Tibe - 2017-05-25 18:57
If arab drifting wouldn't be a problem in the first place, we wouldn't have had to make a rule against it. So the arab drifters themselves are responsible for this.
Regarding normal drifting, if it would be as big of a problem as some of you are suggesting there would already be a rule against it. There have been drifters ever since I started and I hope there will always be. There's nothing more fascinating than seeing a great driver with full control of the car.
I've arab drifted myself, I think its fun but most of the people that do it can't drive without causing danger all the time. And there's not much room for it either, the streets of many TC maps are quite small and narrow, how are you supposed to throw some FWD car around a straight when you barely can have two cars go past each other on it?
And if a majority agrees with the rule, why bother changing it? If it wouldn't be a problem, we wouldn't have a rule against it. And vice versa. Just my 2cents.