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+----- Thread: + Report - Roba COP (Report Archived by Luke) (/showthread.php?tid=22312)
+ Report - Roba COP (Report Archived by Luke) - Old Engine - 2016-05-08 18:33
Your LFS username: dmcmsn
Their LFS username(s): -roba-
Their in-game nickname(s): Roba [COP]
Main reason(s): This cop had been chasing me so i pit to fix my damaged car. Chase is about 30 seconds in so i
Replay and/or screenshot link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3tbuv3u3u150h4a/rtwar%5Dper.mpr?dl=0
Replay timestamps: Starts at 2 mins 35 seconds when i pit chase is about 30 sec in
3 mins 08 seconds clearly rams me into barrier damaging my car, insim still hasnt stated failed to stop yet.
3 mins 20 seconds, clearly pits me into barrier (again) insim still hasnt stated a failed to stop yet!!!
3 mins 24 seconds, insim states failed to stop now.
He constantly keeps telling me which is wrong that you can use force if a suspect fails to stop first time which is incorrect, and is clear breakage of rule:
5.3. Use of Force
Force may only be used if the suspect has failed to stop. The InSim will state when the suspect has failed to stop (after approx 45 seconds)
Description of incident (inc date & time): 5:15pm 8th may 2016
RE: Report - Roba COP - Roba - 2016-05-08 18:42
At 2:59, you have stopped (after running for a good 30 seconds), I have given you a fine, where you take off. I see this as a failure to stop, had the InSim stated it or not. InSim had the 45second timer in order for users to be able to pull over safely, before triggering a chase.
At 3:08, I wanted to nudge/PIT you if I fitted there. I ended up nudging you, full on brakes before the contact. I thought this is a legal maneuver but I apologize for it, it does look like a ram though caused no damage to your car.
After that, 3:20, that was a legit PIT and InSim did state failed to stop while I performed the maneuver anyway.
During the chase, you continuously brake-checked me and other cops, don't even think that would be classed as a ram. If you brake-check for no reason at high speeds, prepare to be rear-ended. I did brake as much as I could when I saw you braking.
I'd like to point out that you blatantly rammed me much worse during the chase, will be uploading my replay for that, as you decided to cut it off.
RE: Report - Roba COP - Old Engine - 2016-05-08 18:48
(2016-05-08 18:42)Roba Wrote: At 2:59, you have stopped (after running for a good 30 seconds), I have given you a fine, where you take off. I see this as a failure to stop, had the InSim stated it or not. InSim had the 45second timer in order for users to be able to pull over safely, before triggering a chase.
At 3:08, I wanted to nudge/PIT you if I fitted there. I ended up nudging you, full on brakes before the contact. I thought this is a legal maneuver but I apologize for it, it does look like a ram though caused no damage to your car.
After that, 3:20, that was a legit PIT and InSim did state failed to stop while I performed the maneuver anyway.
During the chase, you continuously brake-checked me and other cops, don't even think that would be classed as a ram. If you brake-check for no reason at high speeds, prepare to be rear-ended. I did brake as much as I could when I saw you braking.
I'd like to point out that you blatantly rammed me much worse during the chase, will be uploading my replay for that, as you decided to cut it off.
It doesnt matter whether failed to stop happened during the maneuver you should have made sure it stated it before you preformed the maneuver. Being a [CA] you should know better than this.
Secondly i cut nothing off the replay i saved it as soon as you did the wrong. Brake checking is something i do to shake off a chase, it is not against the rules. I didn't ram you i pitted you which is fine as per the rules. The robber may use as much force on the cop as the cop may use on them. At the end of the day you've clearly broken the rules. Should you not have hit me into the barrier i'd have had a good chance of escaping, and i couldn't as you wrecked my car. One thing taught in training is maintain a safe distance between you and the suspect which you didn't do.
But i'm not saying anything now until an Admin takes a look at it.
RE: Report - Roba COP - Roba - 2016-05-08 18:54
Replay link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qj8pxgb50e8aib2/report_answer.mpr?dl=0
Timestamps:
19:24.XX - The chase starts here.
22:50.XX - You rear-end me, and as my front slides towards the barrier, you steer into me and throttle a bit. I class THIS as a ram.
24:26.XX - You clearly steer into the right front fender of the cop car, this is also a minor ram and causes damage to the cop car. I also apologize for hitting you here, bad move from me.
Also, none of the maneuvers I performed to you caused any damage to your car. What ended the chase was when you brake checked infront of me making both of us crash.
I didn't say brake-checking was not allowed - I'm saying that you WILL get rear-ended if you brake-check like this. It's a petty maneuver anyway.
RE: Report - Roba COP - Old Engine - 2016-05-08 19:02
(2016-05-08 18:54)Roba Wrote: Replay link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qj8pxgb50e8aib2/report_answer.mpr?dl=0
Timestamps:
19:24.XX - The chase starts here.
22:50.XX - You rear-end me, and as my front slides towards the barrier, you steer into me and throttle a bit. I class THIS as a ram.
24:26.XX - You clearly steer into the right front fender of the cop car, this is also a minor ram and causes damage to the cop car. I also apologize for hitting you here, bad move from me.
Also, none of the maneuvers I performed to you caused any damage to your car. What ended the chase was when you brake checked infront of me making both of us crash.
I didn't say brake-checking was not allowed - I'm saying that you WILL get rear-ended if you brake-check like this. It's a petty maneuver anyway.
There's no point in trying to shift the blame. You should then keep a safe distance as per training. I'm not getting into no arguments, let the admins deal with it. How this report has ended up from you ramming me at the start to something completely different i do not know.
RE: Report - Roba COP - Roba - 2016-05-08 19:05
My point here once again is, of you reporting me for ramming you. In my view, you have rammed the cops in the chase while my maneuvers did absolutely no damage to your car.
(2016-05-08 18:48)Type R Wrote: Should you not have hit me into the barrier i'd have had a good chance of escaping, and i couldn't as you wrecked my car.
I don't see your point here? The maneuver's caused zero damage to your car, how did this affect the outcome of the chase?
RE: Report - Roba COP - Old Engine - 2016-05-08 19:08
(2016-05-08 19:05)Roba Wrote: My point here once again is, of you reporting me for ramming you. In my view, you have rammed the cops in the chase while my maneuvers did absolutely no damage to your car.
(2016-05-08 18:48)Type R Wrote: Should you not have hit me into the barrier i'd have had a good chance of escaping, and i couldn't as you wrecked my car.
I don't see your point here? The maneuver's caused zero damage to your car, how did this affect the outcome of the chase?
You rammed me into barrier at start before insim failed to stop which messed my steering up
RE: Report - Roba COP - Roba - 2016-05-08 19:11
(2016-05-08 19:08)Type R Wrote:(2016-05-08 19:05)Roba Wrote: My point here once again is, of you reporting me for ramming you. In my view, you have rammed the cops in the chase while my maneuvers did absolutely no damage to your car.
(2016-05-08 18:48)Type R Wrote: Should you not have hit me into the barrier i'd have had a good chance of escaping, and i couldn't as you wrecked my car.
I don't see your point here? The maneuver's caused zero damage to your car, how did this affect the outcome of the chase?
You rammed me into barrier at start before insim failed to stop which messed my steering up
Looking at the replay, there was no damage inflicted to the suspension or wheels. I don't know what you're talking about
RE: Report - Roba COP - BP - 2016-05-08 19:14
Locked for now.
Status: Investigation Process. Updated by: Luke. - Luke - 2016-05-08 21:31
This report is being looked into. Please be patient.
RE: Report - Roba COP - Luke - 2016-05-08 22:22
After analysing both replays, both yourself and Roba will receive warnings.
Roba was using excessive force before the suspect has officially "Failed to stop" by the Insim.
I am aware previously, users were able to perform manoeuvres if it was clear the suspect was not going to stop and was fully aware he was being chased. Some admins were more lenient with this rule simply because it makes sense to perform manoeuvres if the suspect was clearly not going to stop or began using force against the cops themselves.
However, recently a discussion was made internally to clarify what was and wasn't allowed before the "Failure to stop" indication was displayed.
Rule 5.3 is very clear and the conclusion was simply what the rule states, No force is allowed before the insim states the suspect HAS failed to stop. The only possible exception would be if the suspect already began using force against the cops (ie pit manoeuvres). Hopefully, this clears things up a bit.
The first touch Roba made on you after your pitstop would be a legit manoeuvre (if the insim stated you had failed to stop), it is known as "minor force" which usually results in very minimal or no damage usually leading to a box manoeuvre. This is legal and caused zero damage, so this did not affect your chase at all, therefore, no further action will be taken.
On the topic of brake checking. If you brake check, expect nothing else but a hit in the back side. At high speed, it is physically impossible in a game to react quick enough relative to the server latency and client latency. You may argue that they shouldn't be following so closely, well their intentions will be to try and stop you so this argument is invalid.
You did brake check multiple times, this is legal as long as you don't inflict any major damage due to your brake check.
At the timestamp highlighted by Roba at 22:50: you braked which was fine, but then you turned into Roba and used excessive force on the rear of his car causing him to turn uncontrollably into the barrier inflicting damage. Not only that, you continued to accelerate into him which is blatant ramming, a small nudge causing him to lose control is an appropriate amount of force. Bare in mind, you do have a history of using excessive force against cops.
You will receive a warning for ramming during a chase.
Roba should know better considering his position in the [TC] Training Team however, admittedly, this has been a rule which admins and other users have been a little confused about over the recent few months. I'm sure Roba will learn from the action given and hopefully, you will too.
Action has been taken as described.
Thank you for your report.
It has now been moved to the archives.