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**[TC]►Bez◄** · 2012-03-10, 17:27

So as we have idiots on the server butting in most the time, I am brining my side of the story over here so I can get my point across. A Cop Trainer (Karak) who should know about driving though the garages is forbidden. Not just once but around 5 times. Gets unbanned due to me driving behind the garages when i was told by most people it was ok.

Now as Chuck is not reading my forum report in the first place & having ago at me on the server for asking why Karak got unbanned. Then saying i should of been banned. Lets take a look at what i said.

http://forum.city-driving.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=2363

Quote:After this we had a argument about behind the pits on blackwood. As far as i know by many people telling me. Behind pits is allowed ONLY on blackwood. If im wrong i too need a punishment and i accept that.

I was told by many people on Teamspeak. 6-9 people including the members that play a lot, that on the Blackwood track you are allowed behind the pits.

So in a nutshell. Why is Karak getting unbanned for breaking a forbidden rule 5 times? You wouldn't get unbanned for driving wrongside on AB if someone pushed you on that side in a chase?

Please can i ask that ONLY the Admins + Karak post here.
Thankyou
-Bez

Josh · 2012-03-10, 17:46

As I have said multiple times, the rules regarding pit use on Blackwood are being found confusing. People (including myself) think that users are prohibited from driving behind the pits as you have to drive through pit garages to reach that area, however on Blackwood you can reach that area without using pit garages - hence people think it is ok. I don't mind if you aren't in a chase.

However it should be made clear that chases should not go behind the pits at any time on any track. As we have seen it causes a lot of problems and entices people to use pit garages, which is clearly forbidden.

The reason Karak (and others) are unbanned is because the whole situation was confusing (although driving through garages is and always has been a clear rule on all tracks). Karak seems genuinely unaware that what he did was wrong, and as this time it didn't cause problem I was happy to unban him after the discussion(s) in members and the unban request.

**◄Chuck►** · (This post was last modified: 2012-03-10 17:50 by Chuck.)

What Karak did was, in my words, a minor offense. The rule he broke was of organizational nature, hence less important that that one that you actually broke. You went behind the pits and that rule is fundamental as it regulates the actual game-play. You may notice that it was listed under "Cars being chased".

I may also append a post which I made in the member area to understand my reasoning and the idea behind those rules.
===================

Just to clear things up. These two rules are not related at all and they were created years apart.

3. --- Cars Being Chased ---
3.9. Do not drive into or behind garages in the main pitlane.

This was done to prevent people take chases there, as the pit is not to be used as playground for chases. As it causes nothing but mayhem having suspect + 4 cops playing there. Also, the wrong way kick could result into a deadlock situation as the cops cant drive backwards.

6. --- Pitlane --- Rules
6.1 through 6.x

Those rules are rather new. They were all just meant to reduce crashes in the pitlane, all of them are the result of years of observations. However, they are less important as the one from above as a violation of these does not directly and necessarily result into any kind of problems. Its basically the same as the "right-side"-rule. As long nothing happens, you're ok, but if something happens and it turns out it happened because you broke that rule, you're screwed.
Rule 6.3 says "not drive over pit boxes", which means the actual stopping areas. Sure you can go across them if you are sure nothing happens, but if someone exits the garage and you crash into him because you were going across those zones ,instead of using the driving lane, well, you're screwed then.

The rules were not created to criminalize people, but to identify the causer and to identify someone to blame.

**[TC]►Bez◄** · (This post was last modified: 2012-03-10 18:06 by Bez.)

How can he be a Trainer if he is braking rules and not getting punished for it? As you said Josh Driving though the pit garages is clear and always has been. So therefore he should of know this rule as he is a Trainer indeed. Not only did he break the rule once but 5 times?

Also if it means punishing me to punish him. I accept that.

**◄Chuck►** · (This post was last modified: 2012-03-10 18:12 by Chuck.)

Well, everyone does mistakes, including admins and trainers. And nobody does know all rules by heart, and all details. And people may understand them differently. The rules were made to ensure a pleasant gameplay for everyone, not to ban as many users as possible. There is also no point in punishing someone for breaking a rule by mistake.

**[TC]►Bez◄** · 2012-03-10, 18:18

I am pretty sure most people know about the driving though garages rule. But if he's going to milk it and say he didn't know. Then we should just leave it.

Pipa · (This post was last modified: 2012-03-10 18:56 by Pipa.)

Karak has been a long time member and is not known to be a trouble maker. Always a good cop to have as backup aswell. So i don't see why you are having such a go at him.

He may have broken a small rule yes, but don't forget it was you breaking rule 3.9 that put him there in the first place.

So they can either punish both of you or none, as there was a bit of confusion none of you got punished in the end. And especially you bez should be happy with that, since rule 3.9 is far more important than rule 6.4 (see chucks explanation).

**[RDSR] Roba** · 2012-03-10, 20:25

As said multiple times, KaraK wasn't aware of that he broke a rule, and after he got banned, he showed that he is very sorry for braking a rule as he didn't understood it was a rule in the first place. So he apologied and now understands that what he did is bannable offense, and most likely we will never see him doing it again, even tho he was unbanned.

So neither do I see the problem you have with him Bez.

Turkey · 2012-03-10, 20:33

I find this complaint to be absoloutely rediculous. Getting out the banhammer is not always the soloution to rulebreaking, especially when it's a minor offence and the result of a genuine misunderstanding.

What you're essentially saying, Bez, is that dispite there being reasonable evidence to suspect this was a mistake, and that Karak will learn from this and move on, you still want him to serve the 1 week ban. And you're even prepared for him to serve this ban if it means you're banned too.

Does this mean you're under the impression bans are issued for revenge as opposed to a means to keep the server under control. Or do you just have something against Karak?

Pipa · (This post was last modified: 2012-03-10 21:36 by Pipa.)

This might be offtopic, but he just kinda snapped in minecraft. Griefed my whole house/destroyed stuff/placed cobble because i complained about the ban that Karak got. Did it to other people too, even elmo got griefed.

So concluding from this behaviour, i suspect he was bitter about Karak accidently ramming him and tried to get him banned.

Turkey · 2012-03-10, 21:45

Pathetic.

Stevo · (This post was last modified: 2012-03-10 22:38 by Stevo.)

Josh · (This post was last modified: 2012-03-10 22:39 by Josh.)

As this is now moving away from the original topic, and any concerns have been more or less cleared up, to avoid letting this progress to a Bez-hatzor-thread... closed.