Is Islam a Religion of Peace?

[[TC]►BP◄]

(2017-05-25 16:27)Owl Wrote:  Also Drivere, your comments and argument are completely based off bullshit read/viewed on the Internet. Therefore I'm having a hard time believing anything you say. Didn't your mummy and daddy tell you not to believe everything you see on the internet?

Regardless of your views, adopting that sort of tone for a thread like this is a no-no.

[Owl]

Sorry for that but, if you're wanting to have a fair argument in this thread, you have to provide evidence, not fiction. I got tired of reading through this thread with invalid arguments being thrown at eachother, with a couple of people practically insulting another's beliefs when they have no right to, not sure what you're all trying to get out of this thread, if anything its opened up a hole for someone to insert an extremely racist comment into.

[SO•Audiojack]

To be honest I thought this thread was going pretty well considering the subject matter. The comment about all religion being mental disease was pretty edgy but I can see the meaning behind it (regardless of whether I agree.)

[dyzio2206]

so.. YES the christians Did bad things as well as the muslims but with one basic difference.. christians did these in the MIDDLE AGES. the fanatic/radical christian didn't drive a truck towards the croud, he didn't commit suicide bombing in civilian gatherings and other public activities.
today the fanatic/radical muslim has a wide variety of armament and we have seen the results.
times where different and so was the body count..

and the only reason no one thinks about other attacks due to religion is that they are politically motivated in most cases and not religious,
they are also continuously active from old times until now... IRA to be specific is from '98 and the last claimed attack was on march '17.. plus it is region specific.. Northern Ireland to be more precise..
if we add all the terrorist group attacks from all the countries with sole factor what are the religious beliefs of the attackers we will get out of hand with the numbers..

when i compare the average Christian with the average Muslim in terms of how strict is each to the following of his holly book(Bible or Quran respectively) i see that Muslims are more hardcore believers than Christians.. and that can cause problems in some cases..

[Brixton]

@Chuck: If you realy believe in that, you know nothing about history in my optinon. Europe only exists in cause of migration. In the history of europe you have many migrations between diffrent cultures. Learning from other cultures is the best thing to going forward. Only protect "against the others" is just a thing of a very small view to the big world.

But we can take a discussion all day long about that. I know people like you. You are not able to think outside the box in such things. Your opinion is, I´m stupid and the other way around.

@Drivere:
In my mind was the genocide from the buddists mayority against the muslim minority in Burma/Myanmar some years ago. Even the Dalai Lahma said, that the buddists use inexcusable violance there.

This time the terror of islamic terrorists have the main focus. So many people forget about the terror in the 60th, 70th, 80th and 90th.

Between 1960th and 2009 the Eta killed over 800 People in Spain.
The IRA killed around 1800 People (around 800 are Innocent civilians)

Other examples for european terrorism are RAF and NSU.

After the 2nd world war there were some fanatic blokes from the SS who think they can found Nazi Germany again with terrorism. Small Groups with names like "Wehrwolf" or like this.

Yeah the mass of refugees are a problem of todays world. In 10 years there are other problems and 10 years ago there were problems too. With more Europe, with a fair europe and with a fair globalisation we can find good solutions for many of this problems. In my opinion most of the problems are cause from people wo only want her own advantage and ignoring that they can help to solve the problems of the others. People like Chuck who think the solution is a wall against alle the others around us (nearly a fun fact that he write that as a german in a english forum, wich exists in cause of a server where people from all over the world play).

Startquestion was "Is the islam a religion of peace". My opitinon again: Religions are not peacfull or brutal. People are. It doen´t matter what you believe, it matter what you do.

Oh and just so on edge: I grown up on a region with very low % of migrants. I was in some serious fights with some nazi and antifa guys sime time. We have rapes, we have thiefs, we have violance as well. Mainly in cause of some german idiots who are live there since birth.

And the feeling we have more violence and more criminals is a wrong feeling in cause of the mass of information in the social media age.

A statstic for europe terrorism since 1970:

[GOOMB]

(2017-05-25 17:36)dyzio2206 Wrote:  so.. YES the christians Did bad things as well as the muslims but with one basic difference.. christians did these in the MIDDLE AGES. the fanatic/radical christian didn't drive a truck towards the croud, he didn't commit suicide bombing in civilian gatherings and other public activities.
today the fanatic/radical muslim has a wide variety of armament and we have seen the results.
times where different and so was the body count..

and the only reason no one thinks about other attacks due to religion is that they are politically motivated in most cases and not religious,
they are also continuously active from old times until now... IRA to be specific is from '98 and the last claimed attack was on march '17.. plus it is region specific.. Northern Ireland to be more precise..
if we add all the terrorist group attacks from all the countries with sole factor what are the religious beliefs of the attackers we will get out of hand with the numbers..

when i compare the average Christian with the average Muslim in terms of how strict is each to the following of his holly book(Bible or Quran respectively) i see that Muslims are more hardcore believers than Christians.. and that can cause problems in some cases..

"According to the FBI, 94% of terrorist attacks carried out in the United States from 1980 to 2005 have been by non-Muslims."

"There have been over one thousand terrorist attacks in Europe in the past five years. Take a guess at what percent of those terrorists were Muslim. Wrong, now guess again. It’s less than 2%."

"There have been 140,000 terror attacks committed worldwide since 1970. Even if Muslims carried out all of these attacks (which is an absurd assumption given the fact mentioned in my first point), those terrorists would represent less than 0.00009 percent of all Muslims. To put things into perspective, this means that you are more likely to be struck by lightening in your lifetime than a Muslim is likely to commit a terrorist attack during that same timespan."

All those stats are from the same link I have sent above. Those might not even be christian, but most are not Muslim. In other perspective I blame the media for portraying Islam as a 'horrible' religion.

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(2017-05-25 17:46)Brixton Wrote:  Startquestion was "Is the islam a religion of peace". My opitinon again: Religions are not peacfull or brutal. People are. It doen´t matter what you believe, it matter what you think.

I agree with this 100%

[dyzio2206]

@GOOMB
i totally agree with you. if you noticed i am referring to the fanatic/radical type of believer.
also

Quote:and the only reason no one thinks about other attacks due to religion is that they are politically motivated in most cases and not religious

i think that that part is me agreeing with you on the statistics you quoted...

belief is not the problem (nor the solution if you ask me)..

[Drivere]

The definition of "terrorism" is not so to-the-point, allowing a wide range of examples to be branded as "terrorism," such as anti-abortion violence, environmental terrorism, black radicalism, Puerto Rican nationalism, antisemitism, white supremacy, and left-wing and right-wing extremism as well as anti-government movements. What most people think of when they hear the word "terrorism" is almost always related to religious groups and bombs and/or shootings. Now, let's joke for a moment: I haven't heard a Christian go out and bomb themselves in a crowd, shouting, "For the Lord!" or "God, save me!"

"Of the one thousand terror attacks (yet, again, notice the unclear definition), Muslims were less than 2%." That's just simply wrong when looking at the source of that quote. The original source says, "Less than 2 percent of terrorist attacks in the EU are religiously motivated." The article was written in early 2015. As we all know, in the wake of the refugee crisis, we can only guess what the future has in store. Now that European countries have easily been infiltrated by potential militants, the next terror attack is not only a potential threat but a matter of time.

I think we derailed a little bit. There are peaceful Muslims, yes. But I think we were talking about why Islam isn't the best religion when it comes to preventing terror attacks. Once again, the underlying issue can be found in the holy book.

And, I'm sorry, I disagree with you about how "Islam is portrayed as a horrible religion by the media." As a Christian myself, I do abominate Islam, quite frankly. Its views on various things are, to me as a person who grew up in the West and still in a diverse culture with various types of people, very wrong. I think I can safely say that it does that to itself.

[GOOMB]

(2017-05-25 19:06)Drivere Wrote:  The definition of "terrorism" is not so to-the-point, allowing a wide range of examples to be branded as "terrorism," such as anti-abortion violence, environmental terrorism, black radicalism, Puerto Rican nationalism, antisemitism, white supremacy, and left-wing and right-wing extremism as well as anti-government movements. What most people think of when they hear the word "terrorism" is almost always related to religious groups and bombs and/or shootings. Now, let's joke for a moment: I haven't heard a Christian go out and bomb themselves in a crowd, shouting, "For the Lord!" or "God, save me!"

"Of the one thousand terror attacks (yet, again, notice the unclear definition), Muslims were less than 2%." That's just simply wrong when looking at the source of that quote. The original source says, "Less than 2 percent of terrorist attacks in the EU are religiously motivated." The article was written in early 2015. As we all know, in the wake of the refugee crisis, we can only guess what the future has in store. Now that European countries have easily been infiltrated by potential militants, the next terror attack is not only a potential threat but a matter of time.

I think we derailed a little bit. There are peaceful Muslims, yes. But I think we were talking about why Islam isn't the best religion when it comes to preventing terror attacks. Once again, the underlying issue can be found in the holy book.

And, I'm sorry, I disagree with you about how "Islam is portrayed as a horrible religion by the media." As a Christian myself, I do abominate Islam, quite frankly. Its views on various things are, to me as a person who grew up in the West and still in a diverse culture with various types of people, very wrong. I think I can safely say that it does that to itself.

since you "abominate Islam" because of the terror attacks held on it's name; "There have been 140,000 terror attacks committed worldwide since 1970." from 1970-2015 how many Muslim held terror attacks were there? Because I can assure you that it is a very small number compared to the 140,000 total terror attacks.

[[TC]►Nick◄]

(2017-05-25 19:06)Drivere Wrote:  Now, let's joke for a moment: I haven't heard a Christian go out and bomb themselves in a crowd, shouting, "For the Lord!" or "God, save me!"

Some light reading for you.

Attacks by Christians.

Apologies if this goes against your viewpoint, but it's a harsh reality that you should be aware of. If you don't want to appear ignorant to issues close to your own home and religion, I'd recommend a little bit of research of your own.

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(2017-05-25 16:06)Drivere Wrote:  

(2017-05-25 15:06)GOOMB Wrote:  I just wanted you to know that the first Muslim held terrorist attack was in the 1970's and Islam has been around since 610 CE.

Well... I'm sure you do know that bloodily conquering other nations and terrorizing non-believers in the meantime were (or are?) just as bad. Now, I do know of the crusades, so you need not remind me.

Here's a short list of other historical conquests:

• Those pesky Romans
• The Mongols and the Khanates Vs most of the East and some of Europe.
• Britain vs the rest of the planet
• Spain vs the rest of the planet
• The Dutch...
• Portugal...
• Nearly forgot the Greeks

And more recently:

• Germany vs most of the rest of the planet. Twice.
• America vs Korea, Vietnam, Iraq & Afghanistan

It's not all the Muslims, is it?

[dyzio2206]

let me remind you nick that most of those wars were territorial/political and not religious why does everybody pick IRA?? they where christians fighting christians for whatever reason..

@Drivere have you heared a muslim say similar things???

christians check: Deuteronomy 13:6-9 Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (stone your rebelious son)
muslims Quran (4:95) , (2:191-193)

both books say things the problem is how people interpret things and how keen they are to the writings of each book

[[TC]►Nick◄]

(2017-05-25 20:52)dyzio2206 Wrote:  let me remind you nick that most of those wars were territorial/political and not religious why does everybody pick IRA?? they where christians fighting christians for whatever reason..

Because Drivere claimed that Christians haven't bombed public areas, when indeed they have. The reason why isn't the important thing, and many terrorist attacks in the Middle East are also political and territorial, however they just happen to be carried out by radicalists that are coincidentally Muslim.

[GOOMB]

These are the school shootings in 2015 in the US. (the chart was made mid-year) At the end of that year, there was a total of 52 school shootings none of which was committed by a Muslim.

(the link does not refer to the picture. I found the picture on my phone and don't have a link to it)

https://www.rt.com/usa/318169-school-sho...tics-year/

[[TC]►Nick◄]

I'm not trying to attack either religion, but I felt it should be highlighted as there was a bit of ignorance creeping into this thread.

[Ph4nToM]

Edit: On second thought, i'd rather not get involved in this discussion.

[◄Chuck►]

(2017-05-25 17:46)Brixton Wrote:  People like Chuck who think the solution is a wall against alle the others around us (nearly a fun fact that he write that as a german in a english forum, wich exists in cause of a server where people from all over the world play).

You're pretty much missing the point. I'm not against different cultures, I'm against mixing them up against all odds.

(2017-05-25 17:46)Brixton Wrote:  Oh and just so on edge: I grown up on a region with very low % of migrants. I was in some serious fights with some nazi and antifa guys sime time. We have rapes, we have thiefs, we have violance as well. Mainly in cause of some german idiots who are live there since birth.

And the feeling we have more violence and more criminals is a wrong feeling in cause of the mass of information in the social media age.

Well, feel privileged to grow up in a "German" place. Funnily, you are judging me for demanding exactly that for all Germans. But I can ensure you, there are many different places than that. Almost every bigger city has problems with ghettos and so called "No-go-areas". Dortmund (source) , Duisburg (source), Hamburg, Berlin, just to name some. In Hamburg, almost 50% of all children come from a migrant background (source). Berlin has a migrant rate of 30%, which is particularly interesting seeing that Berlin was isolated by the Russians until 1989. So that all happened in less than 28 years.

Whether you want to see it or not, but those numbers don't lie and I didn't make them up on my own.

[dyzio2206]

i don't think that the world(including media) is woried by muslims attacking muslims in some arabic country for whatever reason, neither cares about christians attacking christians in some christian country for whatever reason.
media usualy covers the part of muslim attacks i will agree on that but let me hear how many of you heared that yesturday there was an attack on an ex Prime Minister of Greece(2011-12) via bomb-envelope?

[Brixton]

(2017-05-26 06:39)Chuck Wrote:  You're pretty much missing the point. I'm not against different cultures, I'm against mixing them up against all odds.

Mixing our culture is the best way to go forward to a fair globalised earth. There is no reason to not learning from each other. If we mix it, we can stop the "we here, the others there" thinkings.

Thats the main problem, not the cultures as themself. You can see it in football. Violence against fans of the other club only in cause they like their club. Try to mix fans of Schalke and Dortmund or Lok Leipzig and Saxony (Chemie) Leipzig. Impossible. But why? In cause of the "culture"...in cause of the Clubs they support? No, only in cause the Fans just to stupid to think about it. So is football a brutal sport only in cause some bored (mostly german!) idiots think they must throw bottles and stones?

(2017-05-26 06:39)Chuck Wrote:  Well, feel privileged to grow up in a "German" place. Funnily, you are judging me for demanding exactly that for all Germans. But I can ensure you, there are many different places than that. Almost every bigger city has problems with ghettos and so called "No-go-areas". Dortmund (source) , Duisburg (source), Hamburg, Berlin, just to name some. In Hamburg, almost 50% of all children come from a migrant background (source). Berlin has a migrant rate of 30%, which is particularly interesting seeing that Berlin was isolated by the Russians until 1989. So that all happened in less than 28 years.

Whether you want to see it or not, but those numbers don't lie and I didn't make them up on my own.

I know many places in germany. For my work I was in Cities with hight rate of immegrants. Like Frankfurt/M., Berlin, Hamburg, Bonn and Munich. Like in every city there are good and bad places. Thats not a problem of immigrants, its a problem of immigration.

For example Berlin. West-Berlin wasn´t isolatet. They have a hugh number of guestworkers in the 60th and 70th. The economy need them but nobody have interests to integrate them. But if you leaving your home (and here is a problem with english language, with home I mean "Heimat", there is no proper english word for it, sorry) with your family to work and live on another place, maybe it become your home. And if your only feel like a guest there, then its clear that you search for other people wo feel the same. Voilá: parallel society. The not-Immigration of migrants (Turkish, italien etc.) in the 70th are one of the biggest mistakes in our politic for years.

Same in other countries. France have a hugh problem with african migrants. They coming in cause of the colonial politic of france and they are not welcome in france. No perspective in africa, no perspective in france. That causing problems.

The solution can not be to say: "They all criminals, take them out." The solution can only be to integrate them. Jürgen Habermas wrote, that a united europe can only work if the Portuguese feel for the swede like he feel for the other portuguese. (Book: Postnational constellation/Die postnationale Konstellation). Well, thats so true. If we can make them feel like european, it can make a better world for all of us. Protectionism never works. There are thousend of examples in history that it dont work.

But I will not going over your examples. You say No-Go Areas in some towns only in cause of immigrants. I say there are No-Go Areas in many town not only in cause of immigrants. Try to go at night with a black skin to some townparts in East Germany. I can say that, cause I live in some of these towns. Nazi infected. And maybe Marxloh look like a very dangerous place. So tell me how Tuvia Tenenbom (a german/american jew jornalist) can go there for his book "Allein unter Deutschen"?
Yeah I dont feel very good when I was one time alone at night in Berlin/Neukölln. But I feel the same when I go to Dresden/Reick. And there are not much immigrants, I feel bad there in cause of the germans.

Stop thinking there is a easy solution for the problems of our time. Nowadays so many populists say "The immigrants causing our problems" or "Its just the islam who make the world bad". There are no easy solutions in a complicated world.

[Drivere]

That's exactly what I would hear a globalist politician say, making me agree with Chuck here:

Quote:The german propaganda ministry certainly would be proud to hear that their messages were received.

How do you think mixing two very different cultures up would end up? The Muslim culture lags so far behind the culture that we live in. Take their views on women, homosexuals, and human rights in essence, for example. Not to mention the Sharia law which allows many vile things to happen; things that we consider subhuman. I don't think that just compulsorily finding a solution to something is the best way.

You also say that there are no "no-go areas." I have read numerous times about the no-go areas of Sweden where you have to have backup before going there. Sometimes emergency vehicles, such as ambulances, are having objects like stones thrown at them and being interfered by immigrants from the Middle East so that they couldn't go to the scene. Not to mention that normal citizens' cars were often ablaze. This is purely because of these immigrants and nothing else.