Bonus / Trip system reform

[◄Chuck►]

This is not a concept, I'd rather want to discuss whether the current bonus/trip system could be replaced with something else/better.

The history:
Back in the days, cars used to have up to +5€ / 5sec, but we wanted to give people an incentive to do longer trips and drive sensibly. Therefore all incomes were reduced by 1€ and this 1€ goes into the bonus pot, which is paid out in regular intervals with a certain interest. +4 was for many years the absolute maximum income.

However, those trips have often been the cause for trouble. People lose connection, get crashed OOB and so on.

My dream would be to have a system that keeps that incentive of driving sensibly but gets rid of the complicated trips part.

Here are some ideas:

Idea #1. The bonus would be paid every 10km (or another fixed rate), infinitely, and get rid of the overall trip length. In that case, the loss wouldn't be that big.

Idea #2: Your trip builds up a bonus factor. E.g. every 10km you get 0.1 extra on top of your income. Max should be 100km. So that would be your greatest loss here.

These are just some random ideas, maybe someone knows something better.

[[RDSR] Carlos]

I like idea 1

[RevLeon]

Imo I don't think there is a better system than what we have in place now simply because we can't determine who is at fault of a crash using the insim only. So any way you try to change it, it won't really make a difference because it's not me with 500-600km trip driving around at 300km/h it's the guy with 10-15km trip that doesn't care.

Idea 1# would help with that a little bit but will introduce the issue of people not caring anymore since they only lose 10km.

Idea 2# would be the same as we have now just counted differenly.

In my opinion the only way to make people drive properly and respectfully is just like in real life, fine/kick/ban.

[SO•Yukine]

Nowadays people who want to "keep" their trips go afk on server 2; 1000km is not an achievement anymore.

I like the idea #1. It simplifies life and is also better than you can't play for long / everyday.
It also "fixes" the trip problem for vulnerable vehicles in some way.
Personally I use !trip+ when I want information on my current distance, avg speed, etc.

[Felipe Jardim]

I like current system

I recall, back in the good days, the bonus system was set at fixed, exponential amounts for a infinite amount of KMs. That was removed because of power farmers who would go on 2000km stints with bonuses paying well over 2k. When this was changed, i was devastated but i got over it and adjusted to the new (now current) system.

If we were to go towards idea 1, it would be nice to set a fixed amount for every 10 kms and not have it be exponential. However that 10km bonus should be a generous, yet fair amount. a 10-50 km bonus at blackwood rally stage ranges from 150-160 so half of this every 10 kms would be fair regardless of how slow/fast one is driving.

[◄Chuck►]

#1 is quite similar to what we have now, technically. The only difference is that the payout intervals grow from 10 to 50 and then repeat. Also imagine the big counter gone and ofc the interest is gone. Maybe we can keep the growing intervals, or set them to something in the middle, maybe 25km fixed.

I really disliked the interest thing ever since, as is takes the pay out to absurd levels. This is why there is a 1000km limit.

I'm also with Yukine. It's no challenge for some people to reach 1000km and I feel server 2 has become purely a dormitory. There also should be a max idle time for trips.
But if the main causes are gone, there is no need to go sleeping on server 2 anymore, as they payout pot would be empty.

In theory we could even allow trips > 1000km again but I really don't want to do that. Not for monetary reasons but can you imagine the conversation when someone loses a 12000km trip ? I don't need that, nobody does.


TL;DR My concrete proposal would be:

- Fixed pay-out intervals at 25km
- No more interest (carry-overs from one pay out to another)
- Removal of the overall trip counter

[Felipe Jardim]

(2023-09-10 05:51)Chuck Wrote:  I'm also with Yukine. It's no challenge for some people to reach 1000km and I feel server 2 has become purely a dormitory. There also should be a max idle time for trips.

RIP P V L, me, NGU Japon


In all seriousness, would this fixed payout for bonus be the same regardless of speed? Or would i earn more driving a slow truck rather than a FZ5?

[◄Chuck►]

(2023-09-10 14:18)Felipe Jardim Wrote:  In all seriousness, would this fixed payout for bonus be the same regardless of speed? Or would i earn more driving a slow truck rather than a FZ5?

If I'm not mistaken, that Euro, that currently goes into your bonus pot, goes through the same calculation as your normal income. That means the closer you drive with the speed limit, the more you get. I.e. If you car generates a maximum of +4, but you're currently getting +3, due to your speed, then your bonus-Euro is also just 3/4th of an Euro.

[SO•Yukine]

(2023-09-10 05:51)Chuck Wrote:  TL;DR My concrete proposal would be:

- Fixed pay-out intervals at 25km
- No more interest (carry-overs from one pay out to another)
- Removal of the overall trip counter

I like it personally.
Maybe it could be a good excuse to then dive deeper into developing jobs?

[[TC]►Vilix◄]

I don't think the incentive to get a high trip should be removed. The more you drive, the more you earn and the earning increases with every increment. This gives the player an incentive to continue, and a goal to work towards. You reached 50km trip? Why not go to 100km and then get another nice paycheck.

My point is, I like both ideas but if the system is changed then the new one should have a similar incentive for the player to keep driving more and to work towards something. If there is no goal or motive, then players might care less and also drive less.

[P V L]

Isnt the bonus just counting the time you are within speedlimits and adding 1€ every some

seconds then? This would explain why very slow going vehicles get very high boni ? P V L

[Felipe Jardim]

^+1 eur/5 sec over a 10 min period is going to yield more than +1 eur/5sec over a 5 min period.

Thats why a speedlimit cruise in the 50kmh zone is more profitable than a speedlimit cruise in a 100 kmh zone.

[◄Chuck►]

(2023-09-11 21:18)Felipe Jardim Wrote:  ^+1 eur/5 sec over a 10 min period is going to yield more than +1 eur/5sec over a 5 min period.

Thats why a speedlimit cruise in the 50kmh zone is more profitable than a speedlimit cruise in a 100 kmh zone.

Uh? Those two statements actually contradict each other. The speedlimit doesn't make any difference. The bonus number may look higher, but the pay out intervals are timely farther apart. If you look at your money after 2 hours, you earned basically the same amount. However, the interest-effect could have an impact.

I've created some calculation sheets for the new proposed variants and will create one for the current system for comparison, then we gonna know it for a fact.

[Felipe Jardim]

Yes, if you factor in time (which i wasn't) its almost the same, but i said that out of experience with farming in different tracks. The extra money always comes from the bonus, not necessarily the actual driving income from the vehicle.

In westhill retro, the first 50 km bonuses max out at 75eur if driving a MOSQUITO (due to the interest being the same in those first 50 km) but when driving the SCAMA or a slow bus, i was able to extract up to 98eur

[◄Chuck►]

You can't really fix it on the vehicle. It's the speed limit that counts and how close you can follow it.

Example going perfectly 120 in a 120 zone:


Example going perfectly 80 in a 80 zone:



The 50km bonus is 69€ vs 103€. But if you look at the different time it took you (25min vs 38min), the income is pretty much the same.

[Felipe Jardim]

I get what you're saying, i did a similar test but my comparison was more towards job earnings over time vs regular farming (which is still more profitable when you account time invested) The difference was more noticeable as interest compounded in the higher bonuses, rather than the lowest ones, which is where my comment stemmed from.

[[RDSR] Speed Demon]

Was the bonus return reduced again?

On a 120 km long road, it gives a bonus of 188 euros, and for 100 km it does not even amount to 1000 euros. I think I have to drive a pushback tug to earn 1000 euros per 100 km.

This is how you make it very difficult for us to purchase new vehicle mods. Should we use just one vehicle all day like some people?

Not everyone who enters the server wants to go fast. Nobody has to drive slowly. I'm not saying that people who go fast should or should not lose money. But if you do this, you will eliminate those who drive fast in this way. This is against the spirit of this server.
We also need those fast driving people.

My comment about the travel distance is;
- We definitely don't need unlimited km. 1000KM used to be a big goal for a normal player. That goal was eliminated and nothing replaced it to compensate. (If you need unlimited km, write to us below and answer why you need it)

- I said it on another topic. I don't care about the long km I did, only the first 200 km was important to me because I was getting 1 hour of free time. You eliminated this too. Because everyone went over 1000km.

- I'm still somehow losing track of the trip I did. (Yes, you guessed it right. There is a problem with my internet) You can blame me for this. But of course, one day you will lose your trip because of the internet.

I am asking you. Did this 'unlimited' trip and new bonus system add anything to you?

[Felipe Jardim]

the bonus mutiplier should go to 2.0x after a certain km.

other than that i have no complaints.

Im still making less overall without the compounded interest but i think a 2.0x mutiplier would solve this.

Also, all heavy vehicles should be a +4 income base instead of +3. Traditional farming still more profitable than freight and bus over a period of time and i think this would bridge the gap a bit.

[◄Chuck►]

(2023-10-23 13:02)Speed Demon Wrote:  Was the bonus return reduced again?

On a 120 km long road, it gives a bonus of 188 euros, and for 100 km it does not even amount to 1000 euros. I think I have to drive a pushback tug to earn 1000 euros per 100 km.

This is how you make it very difficult for us to purchase new vehicle mods. Should we use just one vehicle all day like some people?
....

1. It has not been changed recently.

2. You cannot compare kms. The bonus system works by time. It kinda rewards the time you've spent on the server, driving at the speed limit. On faster tracks, you naturally have to drive faster to meet the limit, so you reach the next payout distance faster, but you've invested less time. Ergo less payout.
However, the choice of car does not make any difference.

3. As for the unlimited trip: I didn't want to show it in the first place, as everything >150km is technically the same, so it merely has a personal value.

The current system might not be perfect yet, but its on the right way I think.

[Felipe Jardim]

Talking with people recently it seems new system is pretty solid and keeps most happy. However its not entirely satisfactory to some and my suggestion would be to have a small return after each bonus of 10%. keep it fixed so no crazy bonuses occur.