(Refund Request Denied by Chuck) Refund Req - dkwayman

[Chill .]

- Your LFS Username: dkwayman

- Time & Date of Incident:5/5/2012

- Replay / Screenshot Link: http://lh.rs/W6NJViTwPDrI
- Replay Timestamps:11:49

- Reasons as to why you think you deserve a refund: Well , i was at Safe Zone 2 . I Looked my location and it was Green . i pitted . But i fined 500€for tow O.o .

[Chill .]

No Admins ?

[◄Chuck►]

I don't know, you were moving towards the barrier, a little lag and that's it, Insim thinks your outside. Even though the location shows green, there is always some natural delay and you're not always get to pits instantly after pressing shift+p. One lagger somewhere on the track and you have to wait. It doesn't matter when your car is stationary but when you're moving toward the limits of the safe-zone, such factors are most crucial, like in this case.

Anybody knowing what the refund policy says to these cases?

[Josh]

We usually say 'make sure the InSim states you are in the safe zone' to avoid InSim lag causing you to lose the free pit feature. However, If the InSim stated he was in the safe zone, then he should be entitled to a refund as he would have been in the safe zone area as expected.

Whether or not he can actually prove the InSim stated he was in the safe zone or not is another matter.

How likely is it that the InSim location would change to 'Safe Zone 2' but still issue a fine?

[Chill .]

I Was at SZ2 .

[Josh]

Yeah we'd need more evidence than that really, that's the trouble..

[M3nn0]

Sorry for intervering in this thread... But its just €500,-, than he is happy

[Josh]

(2012-05-13 01:18)M3nn0 Wrote:  Sorry for intervering in this thread... But its just €500,-, than he is happy

It doesn't matter if it is £5 or £50,000, we need to make sure it is being given correctly and fairly.

Sorry for pointing it out... but it ain't your decision.

Chuck, How likely is it that the InSim location would change to 'Safe Zone 2' but still issue a fine?

[◄Chuck►]

(2012-05-13 09:22)Josh Wrote:  Chuck, How likely is it that the InSim location would change to 'Safe Zone 2' but still issue a fine?

We gotta be a bit careful here, as this seems pretty much a precedent case. The way you're asking the chance is 0%.
The problem comes with a moving car, as I described above. The location-display is updated once a second iirc. That means, you're blind flying for the next second. Basically two things can happen during that second:

-The location shows Safe Zone, but due to the display-delay, you're out of the zone already.

-You press shift+p within the zone, but due to a server lag, the action is carried out after you left the zone again.

Both are likely to happen, especially the second one. Everybody knows the situation where you want to pit but it takes a second or sometimes even > 10 seconds when some lamer is connecting.

The point is that the fine is set at the moment when the action is actually carried out (ie the player leaves the track), rather the time when the user pressed shift+p.

I think we should not refund for any of such cases except when the user can proof he was stationary for > 2 second and was not closer than 2 metres to the zone-limits, in which case a real system-error has occurred.
Otherwise we have soon loads of such cases to sort.

Also: The first fine is always issued as a warning, which should alert the user that he did something wrong / act more careful. If he ignores that and simply continues without changing his behaviour and/or diligence, the fine is very valid.

[Chill .]

(2012-05-14 06:53)Chuck Wrote:  Also: The first fine is always issued as a warning, which should alert the user that he did something wrong / act more careful. If he ignores that and simply continues without changing his behaviour and/or diligence, the fine is very valid.

It taked 500€ , without warning .

[Josh]

(2012-05-14 07:29)Rainis . Wrote:  

(2012-05-14 06:53)Chuck Wrote:  Also: The first fine is always issued as a warning, which should alert the user that he did something wrong / act more careful. If he ignores that and simply continues without changing his behaviour and/or diligence, the fine is very valid.

It taked 500€ , without warning .

You would have had a warning message once before a pit-fine. "Warning, you have left the track outside of a Safe Zone" or similar.

[Chill .]

Didnt had

[Josh]

I don't know if that would be possible though?

[◄Chuck►]

It isn't possible. The first fine is *always* a warning.

[Chill .]

up we go !

[Josh]

Right, based on the fact you are saying you didn't receive a warning for the pit fine, im quite inclined to deny this - as Chuck re-iterated, that simply couldn't happen.

[Chill .]

i had Warning before that Pit .

[Josh]

Rainis Wrote:It taked 500€ , without warning .

Rainis Wrote:i had Warning before that Pit .

Which is it?

[Chill .]

, I Pitted wrong place first time , had warning . That 500€ , was after , if I was in safe zone 2 .

---

second Pit taked 500€ . but then i was in SZ

[◄Chuck►]

We're sorry, but your refund request has been denied.