Medic question

[BMW-gek]

Quote:See the end of post #53

Was finishing my first coffee while reading, missed that part

[McGherkin]

I still think MEDs should be able to place !hazard signs. Which gives them a purpose - warning other road users of a serious accident, where the road is blocked. Whilst TOW units are able to place !hazard signs, they can't do so in practice because !hazard signs require the car to be stationary, which is not possible when you're trying to tow someone.

So, a MED can respond quickly to an accident (but without priority over traffic, as the 'common' rules have always been), and then set up signs warning traffic.

[[TC]►Ras◄]

(2012-08-03 16:17)Elmo Wrote:  

(2012-08-03 07:43)Ras Wrote:  I've been wondering something since this was brought up ages ago. I believe it's for Elmo: What thoughts did you have when making the TC medic skin?, because you kinda must have thought medic units were somewhat beneficial when you decided to implement that.

The original TC medic skin was made back in the CnR (which later became USA) days, before anyone used InSim, when everything was pure roleplay. Back then, LFS had still had a mostly serious sim racing/drifting community and cruising (and the people who give cruising a bad name) didn't really exist. Times change.

Oh is it that old. But still, you've updated the skin not a very long time ago, along with all the cop skins, so i was just thinking you might have had some thoughts there.

(2012-08-03 16:17)Elmo Wrote:  

(2012-08-03 07:43)Ras Wrote:  Another question that could be asked after the one Elmo posted above, is: What harm can they cause? Would there be any disadvantages to have them?

All i know is that while [MED]'s drove around unofficially with lights and sirens, it never caused any harm or show any disadvantages.

MEDs tend to fall in 3 categories:
Those who do it for the roleplay
Those that have lost their cop rights, but still want to drive fast with sirens.
Those who just want to drive fast (usually with sirens) without being bound to the cop rules.

First one: there are quite a few of those who does it for the roleplay, including myself, but most tend to stay away from it these days due to not knowing whats allowed and disallowed as [MED], and that's probably why we mostly see noobs with the [MED] tag. If there were sorted some [MED] rules, im sure you would see more regular proper players with the [MED] tag.

Second one: As mentioned before, that could pretty simply (well its simple to say.. i have no idea how it would be to code) be sorted by attaching the [MED] tag to the [COP] rights.

Third: Shouldn't be much of a problem considering they can get chased as any other civilian. Regarding using siren, that would be sorted as when any other civilian illegally use sirens (admin action)

(2012-08-03 16:17)Elmo Wrote:  

(2012-08-03 07:43)Ras Wrote:  I guess the only possible points of having a [MED] is basically to assist at crashes, helping tow if needed, making the scene visible to other road users and securing it by for example parking the marked car a suitable distance before the crash

The only thing anyone's thought of that Med/Res can possibly do that's different is to legally get to the scene faster, with lights+siren. Now, lights+siren would (according to Chuck) imply that they have the same priority as Cops in a chase do. Does a tow situation warrant such a high priority? If it can, then they shouldn't be allowed to use sirens when not on acall, but how would this be enforced?

And by getting to the scene faster, it helps prevent further crashes, because people don't notice the crash in time. A [MED] (or two) on scene could make it more visible, as mentioned in my quote. Though that might only be useful on highways and other dangerous places where its more hard to see whats coming ahead, but it's possible to prevent noobs from crashing into the scene at all kind of locations.

IMO it doesnt have to imply that they have the same priority as Cops in a chase do. It could very well be like it unofficially always have been: No priority in traffic, although traffic may move over if they feel like helping the situation.

[Tommer]

The thing about [MED] is it's a misused tag and there's nothing to stop people misusing it.

I've seen the good the bad and the ugly, normally the ugly. Which tends to consist of people speeding around in med skins being chased by cops, and causing lots of crashes etc.

If you're going to use the [MED] tag it should be strict roleplay, you shouldn't be allowed to break the law (speeding is a questionable area however) - IMO there should be [MED] rights that can be revoked - Now I know people are going to say;

"but hold on if we have med rights this means med training"

No. It does not. The simple solution to this is to make the revocation time based - The user will simply have to learn to follow the laws without being trained this - It's not difficult.

====

With all this being said in my personal opinion I don't really see the point in the [MED]'s but i'm not going to say get rid of it because I know some people for whatever reason enjoy this.

My suspiscion is some people want to drive an emergency vehicle for the 'glamour' and don't want to be involved in these ehh.. fenderbending police chases that leave your car looking rather ugly. Why not open up some sort of accident response tag to the general people? Like a diluted [HwA] with a new name [AR] ? that allows users only caution / hazard / jointow / issue a parking ticket (without a chase system) / do general safety things

^Obviously the point of the tag is to make it an emergency vehicle so give them a circumstance when they can use a siren - eg on Jointow until they arrive at the scene.

Then unlike the [MED] tag they can be of actual use. We might see less autobahn and highway crashes for example when there are some users working on warning other drivers in there fast response vehicles.

[McGherkin]

(2012-08-05 19:13)Tommer Wrote:  Why not open up some sort of accident response tag to the general people? Like a diluted [HwA] with a new name [AR] ? that allows users only caution / hazard / jointow / issue a parking ticket (without a chase system) / do general safety things

^Obviously the point of the tag is to make it an emergency vehicle so give them a circumstance when they can use a siren - eg on Jointow until they arrive at the scene.

Then unlike the [MED] tag they can be of actual use. We might see less autobahn and highway crashes for example when there are some users working on warning other drivers in there fast response vehicles.

You've just explained the [MED] unit, but changed the name to [AR]. And no way is anything other than a cop going to be allowed to hand out tickets. You even pinched the idea of giving them !hazard lol.

[◄Chuck►]

The major problem was/still is/and will be, that MEDs have nothing actually to do. TOWs on the other hand have an important job, especially for those who are waiting for help, but I have never seen someone asking "why do TOWs have no siren?".
So, if the most important person on the scene doesn't need a siren, who would someone completely useless require one?
Also, things like the hazard sign have nothing to do with MEDs as the function should follow the tag, not the opposite. And MEDS are simply not responsible for road-safety.

[railker]

While I agree under perfect circumstances that it's the case, and as a MED with TOWs online I'm usually only helping if I'm already there on scene when it happens, I otherwise just stand by and be useless, RP mode.

But I've been on the server plenty of times where there are no TOWs online, whether the server's empty or full, sometimes it's full and it's the COPs doing the tows. What then? If you want to get absolutely technical about it, that's not their job.

If you're going to make it a med unit, IMO might as well keep with what was stated a couple of pages ago -- Lights and Sirens, but obedience to the speed limits and laws still required, and civvies are not required to pull over, it's not a chase going on, it's a warning system. They are, essentially, the backup tow.

[[TC]»Elmo«]

In a game where people aren't able to get injured, the definition of Med would indeed be completely useless other than roleplay.
As the roleplay element basically consists of parking the car and doing nothing, they may as well make themselves useful by, for example, doing traffic control.

Securing the scene before a Tow arrives and during the towing itself seems to be the only possible useful thing a Med unit could actually do in LFS. Ambulances/paramedics *do* actually control traffic to some extent if they're the only ones on scene (they're usually first to arrive), if only by parking in the road with emergency lights on - if people are going to roleplay anyway, I don't see why they shouldn't be useful while they do it.

The only alternative I see is to just ban it altogether and I don't want to have to do that.


Also, Res is generally included in this discussion alongside Med, but at least a Fire/Rescue unit does have a potential role that makes sense - to help out with the Tow itself. If no Tows are available, I see no reason to prevent Med/Res from taking the role of Tow anyway.

[McGherkin]

(2012-08-03 07:43)Ras Wrote:  

(2012-08-03 07:43)Ras Wrote:  I guess the only possible points of having a [MED] is basically to assist at crashes, helping tow if needed, making the scene visible to other road users and securing it by for example parking the marked car a suitable distance before the crash

And by getting to the scene faster, it helps prevent further crashes, because people don't notice the crash in time. A [MED] (or two) on scene could make it more visible, as mentioned in my quote. Though that might only be useful on highways and other dangerous places where its more hard to see whats coming ahead, but it's possible to prevent noobs from crashing into the scene at all kind of locations.

First vote for [MED] to have the role of securing a scene.

(2012-08-05 19:13)Tommer Wrote:  Why not open up some sort of accident response tag to the general people? Like a diluted [HwA] with a new name [AR] ? that allows users only caution / hazard / jointow / issue a parking ticket (without a chase system) / do general safety things

^Obviously the point of the tag is to make it an emergency vehicle so give them a circumstance when they can use a siren - eg on Jointow until they arrive at the scene.

While I don't see the point of changing the name, that's another vote for a unit to secure a scene.

(2012-08-06 16:50)Elmo Wrote:  As the roleplay element basically consists of parking the car and doing nothing, they may as well make themselves useful by, for example, doing traffic control.

Securing the scene before a Tow arrives and during the towing itself seems to be the only possible useful thing a Med unit could actually do in LFS. Ambulances/paramedics *do* actually control traffic to some extent if they're the only ones on scene (they're usually first to arrive), if only by parking in the road with emergency lights on - if people are going to roleplay anyway, I don't see why they shouldn't be useful while they do it.

And that's another vote for it to have this role. From a leader.

What I've been saying all along is a fourth vote in favour.

So who is against having a unit (whether it's called MED, RES, AR or something different) with the role of securing a scene?

[[TC]►Ras◄]

Now im thinking of it, the unit we are discussing here might as well just be called [RES] and [MED] could be removed/disallowed, as it does make more sense that a fire rescue unit controls traffic and secures the area rather than a paramedic unit.

Chuck Wrote:The major problem was/still is/and will be, that MEDs have nothing actually to do.

I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion, considering various people here have already mentioned something they could do.

Chuck Wrote:TOWs on the other hand have an important job, especially for those who are waiting for help, but I have never seen someone asking "why do TOWs have no siren?".
So, if the most important person on the scene doesn't need a siren, who would someone completely useless require one?

TOWs aswell as [MED]/[RES] would be/is important, as they each have their own role on scene. [MED]/[RES] securing the area and keep the TOW safe while doing their job, which is to sort out the crashed car.

As for the "why do TOWs have no siren?" question never being asked, i guess it's because it isn't common to have TOWs with siren (although some countries irl do have that), where as [MED]/[RES] always have sirens.