- [TC] Josh and 6S Lowrider (Archived by Lampshade)

[[TC]»Elmo«]

(2013-01-05 01:30)cargame.nl Wrote:  * btw 200 Mb replay... Do you think I'm going to upload that? Crazy.

130MB (compressed) isn't really that bad if you care enough to come on the forum to complain about it. We ask for a replay for a reason - how can we do anything about a report if we don't have any evidence?
We also expect you to look through the relevant part(s) of the replay yourself, as what actually happened is often not how you remember it (you should surely know this as a server admin yourself?).
We also request timestamps of the incident (which you should already know as you checked the replay yourself, right?) so we don't have to waste time scanning through an entire replay to find what may or may not have been the incident.

Luckily, I was on the server at the time, so I have the replay and was told roughly where to look. However, by rights, we should just dump this report as you seem not to have put any effort into it, but in the interests of being nice I have found the incident and will review it.


1. Josh did not "smash you out of bounds" You crashed of your own accord - you lost control on the grass and slid sideways into the end of a barrier, which flipped you out of bounds. You tapped Josh's car just after rebounding off the barrier, but it almost certainly didn't make any significant difference.

2. You didn't attempt to get back on the track, instead you chose to drive along the bank outside the track for approx 250m, until finally you accidentally slid through the armco back onto the track. This *is* gaining an advantage, as you are preventing the cops from making an attempt at boxing in your car. There's no telling what further advantage you may have gained had you not slid back on track.


You are correct about the wording of the rules.
In Josh's defence, the rules did used to say for several years:

Quote:3.4. If your car goes out of bounds, you are arrested.

This was changed relatively recently to give suspects a chance to immediately return to the track if possible.
However, you did not immediately attempt to rejoin the track or, as far as the replay shows, did you attempt to return to the track at all. As you were steering away from the track at the time you went through the armco, I can only conclude that you were intending to stay out of bounds. You were out of bounds for about 90 seconds and travelled about 250m under your own power - that is far from immediate.


You did break rule 3.4 (even if it wasn't described in the exact way Josh said it was), however I am told that the ban was mostly due to your attitude.

IMO, the length of the ban was a little excessive for exactly what was said, but your attitude was poor. Calling people "pussies", "pathetic" and telling people to "shut up" is not appropriate behaviour.
Therefore, I will reduce your ban to xxxx (see below). I hope you will be more considerate to others in the future.



I believe one of your main arguments was that in the past your car has entered 'retired' mode and you won the chase(s) as a result? LFS doesn't detect that condition when in cruise mode and we do not currently have a reliable method of detecting whether a user is out of bounds implemented in our InSim, so it will not automatically end the chase in many cases. That does not mean that it is allowed to go out of bounds to win a chase or gain an advantage, even if it is possible to do so. We typically rely on an honour system or user reports to enforce that rule.

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I wrote the above last night, pending a decision on how long to reduce your ban for this afternoon. However, I feel I must respond to your comments from this morning.

(2013-01-05 10:49)cargame.nl Wrote:  I was busy to get back on the track in which I succeeded.

The replay clearly shows you making no attempt to rejoin the track at all, for at least 250 metres. In fact it appears that you only made it back on track by accident.

(2013-01-05 10:49)cargame.nl Wrote:  Yeah, I had to say pussy there because it's only you I'm afraid.

Still being rude I see.

(2013-01-05 10:49)cargame.nl Wrote:  The guy in the XFR [COP] Chief something followed every move I did

Actually, had you been bothered to watch the replay, you'd have seen that it was actually [COP]jones ｯ who was following your every move while you were out of bounds.

(2013-01-05 10:49)cargame.nl Wrote:  

(2013-01-05 01:39)Josh Wrote:  In our chase, we decided we didn't want to carry on

You just made that up. Don't make things up to get yourself a good story. I don't like that, it's called corruption.

He made nothing up:

Chatlog Wrote:2013-01-05 01:15:28 UTC Montana superstix [TC]›Josh‹[VCU] : !c do you wanna carry on if he can get on the road? or end now
2013-01-05 01:15:46 UTC Montana superstix [TC]›Josh‹[VCU] : !c what do you want to do?
2013-01-05 01:15:51 UTC Montana joneszrr [COP]jones ｯ : !c well bust would be nice
2013-01-05 01:15:56 UTC Montana superstix [TC]›Josh‹[VCU] : !c ok

!c is private cop chat, seen only by cops.
As you can see, it was the same [COP]jones ｯ who was closely following you that did not want the chase to continue.

(2013-01-05 10:49)cargame.nl Wrote:  Well.. Not talking about "faults" here anyway. Lets say he blocked my path and the only thing I could do is crash into a barrier. But that doesn't really matter, its part of the fun. Well... It should be... Fun.

But Josh didn't even block your path (even though as a cop that's pretty much his job to try). You had plenty of room to get back on the road before you slid sideways into the barrier. As far as I can see from the replay, Josh made no difference to the outcome.

(2013-01-05 10:49)cargame.nl Wrote:  what the goal of police chases was... Its just for fun. Well, I think I need to rephrase that.. Its fun for some, there are people who just like to show that they have some extra controls and want to use that whatever the situation is. That isn't fun, thats pathetic.

It's fun while it's fair. Unfairly gaining an advantage is only fun for the person who does it and ruins the fun for everyone else. Driving off while out of bounds where the cops can't get you is being unfair, plain and simple.

(2013-01-05 10:49)cargame.nl Wrote:  also pointing out that I have to see myself as some sort of royal status because I coincidently run some other servers. Pisses me off, like I cannot have an argument because I do more than the average LFS user.

The fact of the matter is that you run popular racing servers that have a good reputation. As such, the reputation of your servers reflects on you personally. The same goes the other way - wherever you are within the LFS community, especially when wearing the tags of your servers, you are reprisenting your servers by association whether you intend to or not. That's how others see you and that's human nature. This is pretty much exactly what you are saying here:

(2013-01-05 10:49)cargame.nl Wrote:  I just wanted to share my story so the rest here understand the hostility against TC cruisers from now on.

(2013-01-05 10:49)cargame.nl Wrote:  

(2013-01-05 01:48)Lampshade Wrote:  The fact that you have failed to follow the simple "User Report Template"

I've read it. At the time I didn't have usernames and I refuse to upload enormous MPRs on my low bandwidth line.

Uploading the replay is only one part of the template. It even says "or Screenshot Link", which certainly would not take an hour to upload.
You did have the usernames at the time, because they were right there in the replay. As were the UTC timestamps of the incident.
All this is just further proof to me that you didn't even bother checking the replay to see what really happened.

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As you can see in the first part of this post, I *was* intending to reduce your ban.
However, even though we have been polite to you throughout, both on the server and in this thread, you continue to be rude, are throwing false accusations with no evidence and you even sound as though you intend to be actively hostile towards us in the future. You didn't even care to try to provide any information to help get this resolved in a timely fashion.
As such, I have changed my mind. Your ban will stay as is unless you apologise for your rude attitude.


P.S. here's my 4.5 hour replay that I uploaded with my crappy ADSL connection. http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?36yez477c3mz342
Watch from ~2:07:36