Kyoto layout

[ZsoLT]

I think this new layout ruined the track. No more Autobahn, and some place it looks like a stupid stunt layout.

Sometimes when I was tired I just drove some relaxing cruise lap on the autobahn without stress. And I earned a lot of money...
When I wanted turns and fast driving I drove off the AB and I was able to do it.
Kyoto was the most versatile track. Why it was required to ruin?

I want back the old layout! And You?
What do You think? Vote and comment.

[[TC]►BP◄]

I don't like it but I guess things happen that way.

[Josh]

The main reason for this change was that people complained about 'Autobahn chases'. The problem is people can sit on the autobahn and the cops can very rarely apply force to stop the chase safely.

Personally, I don't like the fact we now have a closed circuit. It would be nice if the AB was opened up past the Safe Zone, to the roundabout (like we had with the old closed circuit in the previous LFS patch). This would give you a bit more AB to use and also options of where to go on the track.

Josh.

[Stevo]

This is a cruise server, not NASCAR.

Get used to it, if you get bored, drive the other way around.

[KaraK [T]]

(2012-02-05 20:20)Josh Wrote:  The main reason for this change was that people complained about 'Autobahn chases'. The problem is people can sit on the autobahn and the cops can very rarely apply force to stop the chase safely.

Surely there must be a better way to stop this.

[Josh]

The only way to stop 'autobahn chases' is to cut off the ability to constantly use the autobahn.

We could always bring in a rule to limit chases on the autobahn, but tbh, I don't really want to spend my time watching chase and timing them to see how long they've been on the autobahn or how many laps they have done.

For me it just feels like the Autobahn is now 'too short' (as a civi especially). It is obviously the main attraction to Kyoto and I think the only real highway style road on any of our servers.

[BMW-gek]

The old layout was better. The Autobahn idea is gone by this layout. And it was obvious why the server was constantly full in my opinion. Got many kilometres on the Autobahn just circling around without any crash.

Only I can't denied the chases on the Autobahn cause allot of mayhem. There is always one driver who can't stop in time ( )
The accidents what I had are particily braking to late, change lanes if you next to them or crossing the autobahn in the junctions.

Maybe Chuck can build a warning system for chases who are stopping on the road. The chasing police cars active automaticly the "hazard" sign on the screen of cars who are approacing the chase. Just on XXX km/h.
Similair to the yellow flag on your screen while racing and you approache a crash.

So, Please can you put the layout back

[Jon]

Im starting to like the way it is now, BUT .. i do prefer the old layout.

[[TC]►Ras◄]

Why not make some small/narrow roads on the parts of AB which is closed now, so its still possible to go all the way around if you like (just not high speed) or some parking areas which you can drive through (low speed only) and get all the way around, or something, so all the space is actually used instead of blocked off like before the open tracks update. One thing that might be a problem with that though is not enough objects to make something like that properly on the closed part of AB.

[ZsoLT]

(2012-02-05 20:31)Stevo Wrote:  This is a cruise server, not NASCAR.

Get used to it, if you get bored, drive the other way around.

You are forced to use the AB? No.
Then why You are against it? If You don't like AB, You don't drive on it. If You like, You use.
Thats why KY was my favourite track, cause it's very versatile track. Road circuit, autobahn, or both. But this new layout destroy all.

[Tommer]

In regards to Autobahn chases - This is what the advanced manouvers we teach in training are for, such as box against wall, or rolling roadblock.

If we could get cops confident in fast cars such as fz5 by offering driver training maybe autobahn chases would not be so much of a challenge, even I struggle to get along with an Fz5

---

Though this does not necessarily fix the problem of autobahn chases, I created a junction at the ex-roundabout that I think does a better job at encouraging people to drive off the autobahn since the faster routes go away from the autobahn, and I think it's less pile up prone too since it doesn't filter into one narrow sharp lane so quickly..



Layout attached

[Josh]

(2012-02-05 21:11)Tommer Wrote:  In regards to Autobahn chases - This is what the advanced manouvers we teach in training are for, such as box against wall, or rolling roadblock.

Even if people can safely bust a suspect on the autobahn, you still have the problem of up to 5 cars being stopped, possibly in more than 1 lane. You then have the added problem of people behind... not all of the people on the servers have the common sense to look far enough ahead and to stop in time.

Josh

[Johan.]

So, definitly a 'lets go back to the old layout'. I don't like this layout, you just have 1 forced track to drive on, and you can't really turn left or right. Gets boring after a while, and even South City is more fun then the current Kyoto layout.

I even got told that there werent enough objects anymore, to keep the current layout, with a different entrance to the second bit of Autobahn. Yet, there are atleast 8 of those speedbumps spawned, in the S corner:



(Oh, and they have a minimum impact on the lines, so they don't do anything to the racing-behaviour of alot of us. With other words, they are pretty useless, better remove em..)

_

I like Tommer his idea, and have a little 'thing' in mind:



What if you do something like this on the big Junctions? You've already splitted the Autobahn in 2 fast pieces,


What if you use his junction, and move the current Roundabout to the old T-Junction infront of the (current Safe Zone) old Safezone2.

Ofcourse, you would still have the Autobahn Chases, but to be honest, I think changing the layout to the suggested things, is way better then just cutting off 30% of the track. This more looks like Chuck his "Oh, someone can hit me right there, I'll put a barrier so no-one will wrongside on that corner".

There should be something better than this, I think.

[[TC]»Elmo«]

(2012-02-05 21:01)ZsoLT Wrote:  You are forced to use the AB? No.
Then why You are against it? If You don't like AB, You don't drive on it. If You like, You use.
Thats why KY was my favourite track, cause it's very versatile track. Road circuit, autobahn, or both. But this new layout destroy all.

The problem comes when 2 thirds of the server are being boring/lazy and constantly driving around on the Autobahn (this is basically what happens most of the time). This gives everyone else 2 options: drive on the fun roads but practically never see another car, or drive on the AB with the rest of them. Cops have to go where the traffic is regardless, so they have even less of a choice.

---

The fundamental problem with Kyoto is that there are only 3 roads and only 3 junctions, which all but removes the 'open' aspect. It can hardly be called 'versatile'.

Having a reasonably open autobahn causes a further dilemma:
It is far, far too easy to earn money on the AB, so many people never leave the AB.
We could remove the speed limit again, but then that causes the old issue of people not being able to get chased for speeding, while being able to drive flat out, so they never leave the AB.

I've had feedback from a number of people since the open layouts were released that the old (closed) KY3 was actually more fun to drive than the open Kyoto.
This closed config is an experiment based on that feedback that also massively reduces the Autobahn dilemma. It had positive feedback about the closed layout from quite a lot of people as well (before some of the more recent layout changes at least) so we must have done something right.

This is an experiment and there will be more changes to come. The experiment is an attempt to make Kyoto more fun to drive for more people, despite its restrictive nature. If you don't like it, go drive on the other server.


Open or not, something has to be done about the Autobahn, be it layout or InSim related. Our servers aren't about making fast, easy money - if they were, we'd just run KY1 and be done with it.

[[TC]►Ras◄]

Elmo, would it be possible to do something like i mentioned in post #9? (mostly wondering if there would be enough objects)

Because im perfectly fine with the AB being shut down, but what im not fine with is that there is such a big part of the track not being used, so if there could be build some parking areas, etc, it would make even more people like it without the full AB, i would think.

[[TC]»Elmo«]

(2012-02-06 00:45)Ras Wrote:  Elmo, would it be possible to do something like i mentioned in post #9? (mostly wondering if there would be enough objects)

Certainly not enough to do any kind of complete road - objects were maxxed out with only partial central barriers on the AB.


I'm currently playing with a layout that has the KY2 section open (possibly with a modified T-Junction to slow traffic a bit)
There's another option to open up the short section next to the arena instead, but I haven't started working on that yet.

[Pipa]

(2012-02-05 21:01)ZsoLT Wrote:  You are forced to use the AB? No.
Then why You are against it? If You don't like AB, You don't drive on it. If You like, You use.
Thats why KY was my favourite track, cause it's very versatile track. Road circuit, autobahn, or both. But this new layout destroy all.

If people were sensible this could work perfectly fine, but even in my limited time as a cop on ky i had plenty of chases just circling the Autobahn.
It isn't fun.

[Sadie]

(2012-02-06 07:46)Pipa Wrote:  

(2012-02-05 21:01)ZsoLT Wrote:  You are forced to use the AB? No.
Then why You are against it? If You don't like AB, You don't drive on it. If You like, You use.
Thats why KY was my favourite track, cause it's very versatile track. Road circuit, autobahn, or both. But this new layout destroy all.

If people were sensible this could work perfectly fine, but even in my limited time as a cop on ky i had plenty of chases just circling the Autobahn.
It isn't fun.

Yes is not fun, and people NOT slow down for siren on AB.

[[TC]►Ice◄]

How about making a junction at every entrance on the autobahn. I know that would acquire a great amount of objects to be placed there, but it might actually make autobahn slower and/or therefor easier to chase on.

[Sadie]

(2012-02-06 08:08)Ice Wrote:  How about making a junction at every entrance on the autobahn. I know that would acquire a great amount of objects to be placed there, but it might actually make autobahn slower and/or therefor easier to chase on.

Yes i know what you mean. I like it, but is it possible to place out as mass objects (Think that it is reproduced elsewhere on the pitch too)

Sorry bad English