Unban - dmcmsn (Ban Reduced by Dracula)

[Old Engine]

Sample Unban Request Wrote:
● Your LFS Username: DMCMSN

● Time & Date of Incident today at around 2pm

● Replay / Screenshot Link: Latest Report.
● Replay Timestamps:

● Reasons as to why you feel you deserve an unban:

Just first off, I think 65 days for brake checking a cop is a bit over the top to be honest. I have asked several different admins several different times, including admins with Red tags. They have confirmed that brake checking is not against the rules. Yes it may be a idiotic move but it still ain't against the rules. I don't see the problem with it. It's the cops fault for following so closely behind.

This has been my method for escaping cops for years, so I don't understand why it's all such a big problem now?

Just think 65 days is a bit over the top for something different admins seem to have different opinions on.

[Dracula]

First off, it's not 65 days just because of the incidents seen there, it's also because I have incremented from prior bans, for example your 30 day ban very recently.

In regards to the brake checking incident - it's not just the brake-checking, which I wouldn't have had a major issue otherwise. It's the fact you did it maliciously to provoke the cop by threatening reports and acting as if he was in the wrong from you slamming your brakes on in front of him.

As for it being against the rules, in my eyes it pretty simply falls under this:

Rules Wrote:1.2. Do not crash or ram other cars deliberately.
This includes negligent and reckless driving, provoking accidents, for example blocking the track, doing stunts or doughnuts on the road and so on.

This is my reasoning, and I stand by my decisions.
I won't close the thread yet incase you have any other comments.

[Old Engine]

(2016-08-26 13:37)Dracula Wrote:  First off, it's not 65 days just because of the incidents seen there, it's also because I have incremented from prior bans, for example your 30 day ban very recently.

In regards to the brake checking incident - it's not just the brake-checking, which I wouldn't have had a major issue otherwise. It's the fact you did it maliciously to provoke the cop by threatening reports and acting as if he was in the wrong from you slamming your brakes on in front of him.

As for it being against the rules, in my eyes it pretty simply falls under this:

Rules Wrote:1.2. Do not crash or ram other cars deliberately.
This includes negligent and reckless driving, provoking accidents, for example blocking the track, doing stunts or doughnuts on the road and so on.

This is my reasoning, and I stand by my decisions.
I won't close the thread yet incase you have any other comments.

Not trying to argue with you here but, I totally disagree with brake checking falling under rule 1.2. As I my self am not 'ramming' or 'crashing' into the other cars. It's the cop that is crashing into me for not maintaining a safe distance as taught in the Basic training.

Also me saying things like 'ram' and 'report' to cops are not to provoke them. I've learned about provoking from the last ban you mentioned.
Me saying 'ram' and 'report' is not to provoke it is simply my method to distract the cop in the hope that they'll loose concentration when trying to respond back. It's not to provoke them it's simply to distract them.
While I understand that there was more to the report than just brake check. Brake checking was the main issue here and I've had 3 reports for it.

I still don't believe it falls under rule 1.2. So if you still disagree with me and with what I've mentioned above. Would it be possible to get another admin to take a look over this and have their opinion on it?

Thanks.

[Dracula]

You're free to argue with me here, it's your thread that you made to explain to me why you think you should be unbanned or have it reduced, there's no problem there.

Here's my issue though, you were in front of the cop chasing, and regardless of their distance, slammed your brakes on full lock knowing it would cause an accident.
That to me is provoking an accident, and as such in my eyes your actions fall under 1.2.

As for the 'ram' and 'report' messages, I straight up do not believe for a second that they are 'distractions'.

As for having another admin look over this, that's not really a normal procedure.
If you believe this is unfair you are free to make an unban appeal and management will review the whole incident.

[Old Engine]

I just didn't want to argue with you as I believe arguing will get us nowhere.

I can assure you the me saying 'ban' and 'report' is only me trying to distract the cops as they'll most likely try and reply and they'll hopefully get distracted and loose contact. If you look for the reason of my last ban, I now know that provoking is not tolerated so that's defiantly not my reason for doing it as that would result in a ban.

Of course me slamming on the brakes is going to make the cop hit me. But there would be no other way for me to get away when I'm in a turbo with 4 fz5 on me. I only do this because I assumed it was not against the rules and I asked admins so I assumed it was perfectly fine to do it.

[Dracula]

Fair enough, I agree with that too.

I still do not believe a single bit that you provoking him is instead some sort of 'distraction' method, and my opinion will remain that way.

Now you say it's definitely going to cause an accident when you slam your brakes on, yet you disagree with me classifying this as a R1.2 breach?
I'm not sure I get your logic anymore, but whatever floats your boat.
I stand by my judgement on that issue, and it's going to remain that way.

Before I conclude this, do you have any questions or comments regarding your right revocation?
I want to clear up any questions or anything you have before I close the thread.

[Old Engine]

(2016-08-26 14:13)Dracula Wrote:  Fair enough, I agree with that too.

I still do not believe a single bit that you provoking him is instead some sort of 'distraction' method, and my opinion will remain that way.

Now you say it's definitely going to cause an accident when you slam your brakes on, yet you disagree with me classifying this as a R1.2 breach?
I'm not sure I get your logic anymore, but whatever floats your boat.
I stand by my judgement on that issue, and it's going to remain that way.

Before I conclude this, do you have any questions or comments regarding your right revocation?
I want to clear up any questions or anything you have before I close the thread.

To be honest at the minute, I'm more concerned about the ban at the minute. The cops rights is something that could be sorted in the future again once we get this ban situation cleared up.

But to answer your question yes, I don't understand why they've been revoked as the guy was extremely laggy and once I even nudged him he goes flying across the map. And once I went to pit him that time he brake checks so I hit his front. And his lag doesn't help the situation either really.

[Dracula]

I find the claim about lag interesting, because I see him get nudged and hit numerous times without too much lag issues at all.

But okay, let's move the lag aside, and check some of the incidents I'm more concerned about.
Here are a few GIFs of the incidents that contributed to your rights being revoked.

Click to open GIFs (Click to View)

Please ignore the dodgy green issue


 

These are a few of the incidents I had issues with, there are more but I don't fancy spending the rest of my night making GIFs.

This looks to me like complete user error on your part by not calculating the maneuvers, I do not believe lag had that big of an impact at all.

All of these incidents and the ones in image form above, combined with your prior revocation due to ramming (and speeding) as cop is why I have chosen to revoke again today.

[Old Engine]

(2016-08-26 14:54)Dracula Wrote:  I find the claim about lag interesting, because I see him get nudged and hit numerous times without too much lag issues at all.

But okay, let's move the lag aside, and check some of the incidents I'm more concerned about.
Here are a few GIFs of the incidents that contributed to your rights being revoked.

Click to open GIFs (Click to View)

Please ignore the dodgy green issue


 

These are a few of the incidents I had issues with, there are more but I don't fancy spending the rest of my night making GIFs.

This looks to me like complete user error on your part by not calculating the maneuvers, I do not believe lag had that big of an impact at all.

All of these incidents and the ones in image form above, combined with your prior revocation due to ramming (and speeding) as cop is why I have chosen to revoke again today.

Yes complete misjudgment on my part completely, as you can see in GIF 2 I apologised multiple times to him after it saying it was too rough and sorry for it.

In gif 1 misjudgement again but lag defiantly played a part in this one, he goes flying off into the sand.

If you think my rights should be revoked for that I'm cool with that, as that's your decision not mine, although do think it's a bit harsh over a misjudgment even though I sincerely apologised in gif 2. In gif 1 misjudgment again but the lag defiantly made him fly and made me spin round.

As I said I'm more concerned with the ban, but I've lost hope now for getting an un ban. I do think it's a bit harsh to revoke my rights over misjudgment, but as I say I don't want to argue with you, just putting my opinion out there.

[Dracula]

I included the one you apologized for and another separate one to show that idea - the one you apologize for saying it was a mistake is the same as the other ones you blame on lag - it's user error.

Lag may make the aftermath much worse, however you still caused the incidents by hitting him like that in the first place.

Yes, the punishments I imposed are harsh, but that's kind of the point at the end of the day.

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I'll try cut you some slack here, but please take this seriously as it'll be recorded on your URS and it will be upheld, no doubt.

You'll need to go through training again due to your revocation issue, I think that is fair enough.
Your ban of 65 days was more for the previously discussed things, however I am willing to reduce this to a lower amount, possibly around the length of your last ban, if you can promise me a few things, mainly

• you're not going to continue, what is deemed by any admin to be provoking behavior, with your brake testing and then subsequent ram/report accusations
• you're not going to provoke people in general, or cause issues
• you'll take more care in regards to force in chases
  

If you are seen by an admin doing this sort of stuff, you will receive a 60 day ban minimum (as if this ban was not reduced, and was a 60 day ban).

Does that sound reasonable to you?

[Old Engine]

(2016-08-26 15:20)Dracula Wrote:  I included the one you apologized for and another separate one to show that idea - the one you apologize for saying it was a mistake is the same as the other ones you blame on lag - it's user error.

Lag may make the aftermath much worse, however you still caused the incidents by hitting him like that in the first place.

Yes, the punishments I imposed are harsh, but that's kind of the point at the end of the day.

---

I'll try cut you some slack here, but please take this seriously as it'll be recorded on your URS and it will be upheld, no doubt.

You'll need to go through training again due to your revocation issue, I think that is fair enough.
Your ban of 65 days was more for the previously discussed things, however I am willing to reduce this to a lower amount, possibly around the length of your last ban, if you can promise me a few things, mainly

• you're not going to continue, what is deemed by any admin to be provoking behavior, with your brake testing and then subsequent ram/report accusations
• you're not going to provoke people in general, or cause issues
• you'll take more care in regards to force in chases
  

If you are seen by an admin doing this sort of stuff, you will receive a 60 day ban minimum (as if this ban was not reduced, and was a 60 day ban).

Does that sound reasonable to you?

1- Yes I'll do no more brake tests, I'll just pay the fine and not initiate a chase.
2- Yes I'll do my best not too.
3- I'll do my best not to do any moves against the rules.

I agree, fair enough for making me go through the training again, agree with you on that one now that I've watched back the replay, some of the moves were uncalled for so I respect your decision.

To be honest, I think you've been brilliant with handling this case as you've answered all my questions fairly with good explanations so I appreciate that.

[Dracula]

Glad you're willing to adhere to those conditions.

Please bare in mind the most important factor about the brake-testing section, is not so much the brake-testing itself, it's that you just cannot do what you did earlier with blaming - you get what you get when you slam brakes on in front of a cop at high speeds.

I'll reduce your ban to 30 days, and it will be noted if you are caught doing this sort of thing again (provoking, etc) in the future that you should receive a minimum of 60 days.

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Please note, if you still think this is unfair you are still entitled to an Appeal, however please read up on the risks involved.

Your ban ends: 2016-09-25 (30 days)
Your right revocation cool-down period is 31 days

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Your ban has been reduced