New rules regarding chasing bikes?

[Matt]

Hi folks,

Bit of a rare one that's a bit of a grey area rules wise, but are any new rules being considered regarding chasing bikes? A number of actual police forces operate a variety of tactics, with the most common generally being none contact to minimise injury risk (with DRA sometimes permitting force increasing with the manner of riding - i.e. dangerous riding authorises contact).

Obvious issue right now is that in a chase, one bit of contact from a cop is chase over as 5 seconds is far shorter than the !getup time, which makes chases pretty imbalanced against bikes. If the rider falls over, that's fine but surely just ramming bikes over isn't really ok?

Obviously this would rule out PIT maneuvers too, but TPAC on a bike could perhaps be an option? Ideally, as per the real thing, utilising zero intentional contact from the COPs involved?

Cheers,
Matt

[[TC]►BP◄]

Normal force rules apply.
With the current LFS physics, a bike v car chase will always be imbalanced.

[7mar]

idk about you but i always run them over

[KiiT1337]

Imo, any kind of contact from a cop to the biker running is 100% chance of death to the biker, also, thats personal to me since idk about other cops, while im chasing a biker and most of the times i patrol on GE20, which one is by itself a quick boat, i always let biker has 3 chances to outrun or get busted.

By doing that i still giving biker 3 chances to give up already or get lucky and outrun me.
Except that most of the crashes from bikes happen on a minimal mistake, either other citizens driving on WW, constantly cutting corners cause apparently TC isnt about cruise, but street racing.

And now going back to the rule book, i'm not up to adding a specific rule and overthink about that, but a smol quote for cops to keep in mind that against bikes any touch is letal, so at least keep a smol distance and let them have at least one chance to stop.

Thats a long discussion, and we could keep chatting a long while, or just add that small quote. IMO.

(Yesterday we saw a case with a copper chasing a biker, and prolly as it looks like he didnt even let the chase itself reach 45 secs, indeed hit the biker before 45secs, causing a bit of retaliation from other players/cops aswell)

[[TC]►Carl◄]

Rules wise, nothing is being discussed at the moment, but you do raise a good point. I can’t comment much on my own experience as I can’t even ride the bikes without falling over nor have I chased a bike. I think we should stick with what we have for the rules to not over complicate as you said. I wouldn’t be against maybe adding a little snippet into the police guide for best practice on dealing with bikes. It would at least encourage fun gameplay, but when you think about a cop running solo, what is he/she supposed to do?

Just my personal opinion.

[KiiT1337]

(2022-07-21 22:06)Carl Wrote:  Rules wise, nothing is being discussed at the moment, but you do raise a good point. I can’t comment much on my own experience as I can’t even ride the bikes without falling over nor have I chased a bike. I think we should stick with what we have for the rules to not over complicate as you said. I wouldn’t be against maybe adding a little snippet into the police guide for best practice on dealing with bikes. It would at least encourage fun gameplay, but when you think about a cop running solo, what is he/she supposed to do?

Just my personal opinion.

Maybe add an exception just for bikers in this case, since 1v1 against bikes is kinda unfair (Speaking about FAST bikes), chases against bikers should start atleast 2v1, maybe, or instead starting with that 45sec gap, start straight from chase itself.

[[TC]►BP◄]

KiiT1337 Wrote:Maybe add an exception just for bikers in this case, since 1v1 against bikes is kinda unfair (Speaking about FAST bikes), chases against bikers should start atleast 2v1, maybe, or instead starting with that 45sec gap, start straight from chase itself.

Am I correct that you believe bikes are at an advantage during a chase? That would be interesting, because it's seemingly the opposite of what the OP believes.

In any case, I think bikes are at a disadvantage during a chase because they are extremely slow on corners and they fall over very easily.

Your fail to stop idea doesn't make sense. People need adequate opportunity to pull over. That's how the gameplay works.

[Matt]

(2022-07-21 22:06)Carl Wrote:  when you think about a cop running solo, what is he/she supposed to do?

Quite honestly, I just wait for them to fall over.

[badmantru]

(2022-07-19 19:35)BP Wrote:  Normal force rules apply.
With the current LFS physics, a bike v car chase will always be imbalanced.

that's not true, i outrun xrts, fxos and rb4s on tsr500. Most go for no contact but few bump me mid corners causing them selves to crash aswell. this needs addressed

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As the most avid bike rider in the tc community with the best ability to last 8+ laps on so city. This needs addressed, bike's shouldn't have contact from cops and cops should focus on making roadblocks or waiting for the biker to crash himself.

also the getup times in the server are laughable. More times than anything I cause more issues waiting in the middle of the street waiting to "getup" from being hit by a ww or traffic.

[Matt]

(2022-07-28 16:22)badmantru Wrote:  also the getup times in the server are laughable. More times than anything I cause more issues waiting in the middle of the street waiting to "getup" from being hit by a ww or traffic.

Completely agree, needs a separate thread. 5 seconds would be more reasonable.

[fWANKy]

(2022-07-31 17:55)Matt Wrote:  

(2022-07-28 16:22)badmantru Wrote:  also the getup times in the server are laughable. More times than anything I cause more issues waiting in the middle of the street waiting to "getup" from being hit by a ww or traffic.

Completely agree, needs a separate thread. 5 seconds would be more reasonable.

timed getup is dumb in itself. it should of always been instant like when you reset. The amount of chases ive ruined by people hitting me when i have been waiting for this timed getup to get me up is too much. Especially on south city this is the dumbest idea ever..

instant get up is a must.

[[RDSR] Misterviin]

(2022-08-01 11:03)fWANKy Wrote:  

(2022-07-31 17:55)Matt Wrote:  

(2022-07-28 16:22)badmantru Wrote:  also the getup times in the server are laughable. More times than anything I cause more issues waiting in the middle of the street waiting to "getup" from being hit by a ww or traffic.

Completely agree, needs a separate thread. 5 seconds would be more reasonable.

timed getup is dumb in itself. it should of always been instant like when you reset. The amount of chases ive ruined by people hitting me when i have been waiting for this timed getup to get me up is too much. Especially on south city this is the dumbest idea ever..

instant get up is a must.

You dont get up immediately irl when you flip yourself with a bike. Running with bike is just a dumb idea, why do it anyway?

[badmantru]

(2022-08-01 18:23)Misterviin Wrote:  

(2022-08-01 11:03)fWANKy Wrote:  

(2022-07-31 17:55)Matt Wrote:  

(2022-07-28 16:22)badmantru Wrote:  also the getup times in the server are laughable. More times than anything I cause more issues waiting in the middle of the street waiting to "getup" from being hit by a ww or traffic.

Completely agree, needs a separate thread. 5 seconds would be more reasonable.

timed getup is dumb in itself. it should of always been instant like when you reset. The amount of chases ive ruined by people hitting me when i have been waiting for this timed getup to get me up is too much. Especially on south city this is the dumbest idea ever..

instant get up is a must.

You dont get up immediately irl when you flip yourself with a bike. Running with bike is just a dumb idea, why do it anyway?

you also don't get glitches in armco's that fly you 200ft in the sky, you wanna talk irl relevance?
also running with a bike is alot of fun, especially on small maps you cant sneak through cars with.

[[TC]►Bez◄]

"you also don't get glitches in armco's that fly you 200ft in the sky, you wanna talk irl relevance?"

Live for Speed coding/Game engine...

!getup command

Insim coding by Chuck...

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If you want to complain about Live for Speed physics feel free to jump on their forum. Your argument is invalid here.

Also think how long it actually takes to pick up a dropped bike. I think Chuck has the getup timer nailed.

[badmantru]

(2022-08-01 20:20)Bez Wrote:  "you also don't get glitches in armco's that fly you 200ft in the sky, you wanna talk irl relevance?"

Live for Speed coding/Game engine...

!getup command

Insim coding by Chuck...

---

If you want to complain about Live for Speed physics feel free to jump on their forum. Your argument is invalid here.

Also think how long it actually takes to pick up a dropped bike. I think Chuck has the getup timer nailed.

The reference to physics was a response to the previous person response as far as comparing lfs to realism. All of the bikers have mentioned this yet you refuse to listen to us. You don't have it nailed, no tc user rides bikes commonly to understand the frustration of having to sit there and get nailed and sent into space multiple times.

[Callys]

(2022-07-22 07:23)BP Wrote:  

KiiT1337 Wrote:

Am I correct that you believe bikes are at an advantage during a chase? That would be interesting, because it's seemingly the opposite of what the OP believes.

In any case, I think bikes are at a disadvantage during a chase because they are extremely slow on corners and they fall over very easily.

Your fail to stop idea doesn't make sense. People need adequate opportunity to pull over. That's how the gameplay works.

Saying that bikers are at disadvantage, specially on long maps as Montana is debatable, they are indeed slow on corners, also depends on the your bike and your skills, but not straights they are unbearable, it isn't that rare to see bikes escaping in Montana, most of the times you just need to get the skills in riding the bike in LFS

[[TC]►Cam◄]

I guess it's a bit like real life, where if you choose to ride a bike, you are very vulnerable to falling off with minimal contact. You accept that risk by deciding to ride a bike in the first place. In terms of making it more enjoyable gameplay wise, I see your point, bike chases are always short-lived. The moment contact is allowed, the chase is pretty much over.

Think I touched on something similar in a different thread, but if we could change the getup time in chases (and only chases) to be slightly more faster, then perhaps the chases could be more fun. However getting knocked off your bike with minimal contact is never going to change, and I think that's just the reality of riding a bike.