Suggestions for Safety Rating feature

[◄Chuck►]

I will give it at least to Friday so that everyone had a chance to make their own experience with it. At that time the team and I will decide how to continue, whether changes are necessary or it shall be removed altogether.
The most negative replies came just 2h after the release when the effects of the system were not even foreseeable yet.
I'm open for all constructive critic and suggestions if they are founded on actual experiences, but I will disregard things like "this is not gonna work" because its purely hypothetic or "remove it". This is not a medieval bazar or Twitter where everyone just yell their lungs out.

[fWANKy]

im with simox on this one, get rid of it completely.

i hate being constantly hit by wrongway dribbles who dont have the brain capacity to do such a simple task as check the map. No lie it only takes 3laps before i get hit by a no brain donkey and soon im on 80sr and i cant drive the fun cars now..

this sr system is doomed by the no brains that ruin it for us so just get rid of it.

[[TC]►Leon◄]

I voted to remove it.

While I haven't personally been severely impacted it, I have seen how easily it is abused and there's no escaping the fact that it's quite often the wrong party penalized for a collision. An example of this is bikes pulling out in front of cars traveling at a high rate of speed. The idea is good, but as long as fault can't be determined to a fairer degree, it doesn't do justice.

[SO•Huski]

Reading it I've noticed something that nobody has really spoken about, Gumball. Now I need to preface by saying I last took part in one in 2017 when the FZ5 was the fastest vehicle in TC. Within the first day I could likely lose a tonne of SR from people attempting to just get the fastest distance gain which means the fastest speed, wrong way, etc. I'd be concerned if the system in its current restriction based implementation when that does roll around once more, how much SR will be lost from people focused entirely on speed and distance, they may not be 'wreckers' but instead trying to get the distance up.

At current I wonder if when Gumball rolls around or any distance event for that matter in a penalty by own speed system how much of an impact that would pose to the still 'innocents' in this situation, if I'm hurling myself at 200 kph on the right side, within lines etc, and get WW'd by somebody doing 200 kph on the wrong way sending myself to the ether, will be both be punished the same? Is that fair? Am I at fault? Sure the speed is excessive but what if I'm on the right side, within lines, etc, doing everything other than speed to remain safe, am I at the same amount of fault and blame and therefore punishment than the other person on the wrong way at the same speed?

While I want to give this system time, this thought came into my mind and I responded to it by going "Oh yeah."

[megatronus8010]

(2022-10-24 04:27)Chuck Wrote:  The most negative replies came just 2h after the release when the effects of the system were not even foreseeable yet.
I'm open for all constructive critic and suggestions if they are founded on actual experiences, but I will disregard things like "this is not gonna work" because its purely hypothetic or "remove it". This is not a medieval bazar or Twitter where everyone just yell their lungs out.

The responses came instantly because it doesnt take much to see that this system doesnt work.

(2022-10-24 04:27)Chuck Wrote:  I'm open for all constructive critic and suggestions if they are founded on actual experiences. This is not a medieval bazar or Twitter where everyone just yell their lungs out

Here's my actual experience in a clip. This was before the cars were restricted but it shows my point.


Link to Medal Clip


As you can see my friend volunteered to ram me while i was cruising 20 under the limit on the correct side. He rear ends me and I lose about 8 SR points which is enough to make me ineligible to drive the bike I was using.

Was there anything I could do to avoid it? No.

Hence, the system is unfair.

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Now coming to constructive comments on how to fix these issues

1) You need some kind of detection for wrong way drivers. I know you can set zones with your insim, maybe you can also partition the correct side and wrong side so that only the wrong way driver loses SR.

2) In case of rear end scenario
You need to take approach speed in account. If a car getting rear ended is under the speed limit and both cars are on same side of the road on a straight. Only SR for the person rear ending should go down.

3) Dynamic zones based on traffic light.
There needs to be an implementation for the right of way when it comes to traffic lights. If someone pulls out in front of me on lets say ASTON map when my light is green, I would lose a lot of SR because I was going fast but the person who cut me off would lose none because they were joining the traffic under 30kmh.


and the list goes on........ there's hundreds of scenarios that you would have to fix. On one hand it would be a great exercise in automatic fault detection of automobiles but for that you need to remove the penalties and fine tune the system first.


The only place I can see this system be useful is to stop consistent ramming by a player when an admin is not present. Where you could set some kind of threshold SR decrease to auto ban a serial crasher but we already have !report system for it.

I just dont see where we are heading with this.

[Tommer]

I think a lot of people in this thread are getting hung up on the fact that they can lose some safety rating for things that are not their fault and think the system needs to be perfect. In fact I think trying to design a system that correctly attributes blame is a fools errand, there are way too many variables.

Actually I think its fine as-is and even the system 'working as expected' - In the end someone with poor driving is going to, on average end up in way more crashes than someone who is driving safely and defensively. People are just going to have to accept that there will be times they lose a few points because of a noob and as long as the system is correctly balanced it won't actually be enough to affect them anyway.

[[TC]►Nick◄]

(2022-10-25 07:34)Tommer Wrote:  I think a lot of people in this thread are getting hung up on the fact that they can lose some safety rating for things that are not their fault and think the system needs to be perfect. In fact I think trying to design a system that correctly attributes blame is a fools errand, there are way too many variables.

Actually I think its fine as-is and even the system 'working as expected' - In the end someone with poor driving is going to, on average end up in way more crashes than someone who is driving safely and defensively. People are just going to have to accept that there will be times they lose a few points because of a noob and as long as the system is correctly balanced it won't actually be enough to affect them anyway.

Last seen LFS 5 months ago

Have you tried it yet, Tommer?

[Tommer]

(2022-10-25 08:18)Nick Wrote:  Last seen LFS 5 months ago

Have you tried it yet, Tommer?

Fair I can't comment on whether it is balanced as I have not experienced it myself no - I do think it just sounds like something that is going to need calibration though, watch how fast people lose/gain points and adjust as necessary until its only punishing people who are driving carelessly

[M6nsh]

(2022-10-25 08:18)Nick Wrote:  

(2022-10-25 07:34)Tommer Wrote:  Actually I think its fine as-is and even the system 'working as expected' - In the end someone with poor driving is going to, on average end up in way more crashes than someone who is driving safely and defensively. People are just going to have to accept that there will be times they lose a few points because of a noob and as long as the system is correctly balanced it won't actually be enough to affect them anyway.

Last seen LFS 5 months ago


Have you tried it yet, Tommer?

well nick, tommer got a point tho I highly agree with him for a guy who did not play for over 5 months, He also expressed his opinion on what is best for the server
-
so since chuck expecting from us a feedback for the Amazing new system I'll start typing

firstly TC was meant for cruising or roleplaying cops and robbers to chase each other and break a few road laws while enjoying high speed, as well as other roleplay like bus,taxi,jobs,tow

But Messing in the main roads and ramming each other??
That's exactly what the new system is trying to prevent from happening, there was an incident that happened 3 weeks ago 5 dudes if I'm not mistaken got banned for messing & ramming each other in the main roads Thanks to Blacktop

However, Chuck listened to you boys' complaints and Made the sr not to drop down in the stunt zone to whatever fun you enjoy doing it there, why are you still calling for it to be removed?
-
The new system is designed to prevent messing on the main roads as well as to ensure that road laws and rules are followed

Also the type of dudes saying that they can't maintain the sr from dropping while driving?? I've been testing out the sr system since it showed up I never get under 90 Even though I drive recklessly and very fast

Considering the system is in early development and not finished, I vote no to not removing it I believe chuck can make it even better

Lastly, since nobody thanked Pvl or Chuck for their work
pvl, thank you for your brilliant idea, and Chuck, thank you for your Great work

[◄Chuck►]

I'll check the rest later, but for now:

(2022-10-24 16:57)megatronus8010 Wrote:  ..
Link to Medal Clip
...

This is a *very* misleading example from an early test version.
Your actual loss would have been 1.46, not 8.

The formula is simple:
67kph - 30kph leeway = 37kph ~ 10.27m/s / 7 = 1.46 SR

[[TC]►Petsu◄]

My biggest worry about the system is the oncoming cannonball event, as its way too easy to "grief" someones SR to drop below 90.

For example there's a tight battle between two people for the first place, one of their friend wants to help him and decides to "accidentally" join the track right in front of a guy going 250km/h on main straight with koenigsegg. If the guy has had even minor fender bender just before he would most likely drop below under 90 SR which would mean slower car until he has regained the SR. If it was pure accident, that would be too bad for him, but as he was griefed (and if the griefer has even a little bit of brains it's hard to prove) it wouldn't be right.

TLDR: System is too easily abusable and should be disabled atleast for during cannonball as i personally wouldn't want to have winner be decided by who has best luck when it comes to wrongwayers.

[megatronus8010]

(2022-10-25 11:40)Chuck Wrote:  I'll check the rest later, but for now:

(2022-10-24 16:57)megatronus8010 Wrote:  ..
Link to Medal Clip
...

This is a *very* misleading example from an early test version.
Your actual loss would have been 1.46, not 8.

The formula is simple:
67kph - 30kph leeway = 37kph ~ 10.27m/s / 7 = 1.46 SR

The loss of 8 wasnt due to single hit. It was because I hit the blue PP50 on the road there after being hit and flying across the map.

And regarding the formula my speedo is in mph:
Its 68mph ~ 110 kmh = 110-30 = 80kmh ~ 22 m/s /7 = 3.14 SR loss which is not far off the original formula whatever it was, as you can see in the clip as it goes to 91.5 from 95.8 at first. Then i hit the PP50 as you cannot control your bike when its flying, resulting in 8 SR loss.

Regardless of my speed and exact calculations do you not see a problem there? Am I the only one!

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A player makes about 3000 tc cash per hour while farming (on top of my head might not be accurate), to unlock a keonigsegg you need 200k and thats about 66 hours of play time. Give or take errors in my math lets assume about 50 hours. While one hit from random person can take my privilege of driving that car away.

Your retort to that will be that you can gain it back up soon. It takes 50 km to get it 10 points up again, which is 30 minutes to an hour of driving depending on your speed. Is it fair to then again grind back for the car you already own? Most people do not play in 8 hour sessions and come to the server for 30 minutes to an hour anyway.

Will you guys create a SR refund forum section for the abusers? There needs to be a clear way forward.

You could make it possible to use the safety points you gained by driving good as coupons to gain some SR back immediately and then deal with the crasher later. The current implementation is too rudimentary and needs a lot of work, not ready for production at all as I said before.

[fWANKy]

the only way to make it work is as mentioned above, is to have a refund section for lost sr due to a no brain hitting you.

[M6nsh]

(2022-10-25 17:16)fWANKy Wrote:  the only way to make it work is as mentioned above, is to have a refund section for lost sr due to a no brain hitting you.

If the guy who crashed into you typed !Sorry you'll get 70% of the sr that has gone

[Dino]

(2022-10-25 17:48)M6nsh Wrote:  

(2022-10-25 17:16)fWANKy Wrote:  the only way to make it work is as mentioned above, is to have a refund section for lost sr due to a no brain hitting you.

If the guy who crashed into you typed !Sorry you'll get 70% of the sr that has gone

wow no thanks, people getting even more toxic and forcing people to type !sorry then

[megatronus8010]

(2022-10-25 17:48)M6nsh Wrote:  

(2022-10-25 17:16)fWANKy Wrote:  the only way to make it work is as mentioned above, is to have a refund section for lost sr due to a no brain hitting you.

If the guy who crashed into you typed !Sorry you'll get 70% of the sr that has gone

Is this is a suggestion or is it the way it works?

That could solve some problems but why is it 70%, 100% would make more sense. However, not everyone likes to use !sorry which is a whole another topic

[Titan]

a very good idea .. so the senseless ramming stops ...

and you are encouraged to drive more carefully..

the faster cars you want to drive, the more points you need..

somehow I remember that I once created a thread .. exactly because of something ..

[[TC] TAZxx]

OH LOOK, IT'S ME! (2nd user)


How did I get here? Leon... Well, Nick too.

Do I care? No... Or at least, I wouldn't if I didn't get restricted from using cars I've been enjoying and driving with care.

The system is EXTREMELY flawed and guess what, AI (code) would be unable to prove who is at fault.

All the system currently does is measure your speed, VS the speed of who was hit... It needs removing or used in a private manor (similar to URS) to actually be a FAIR feature.

For someone to lose out based on others actions is completely unfair. Sure, the drivers who crash constantly into others and are complete and utter buffoons deserve restriction... !restrict does that quite well and is WAY under-utilised.

There's a lot more I could say on the subject... But if the idea is to be stricter on those who cannot drive or break the rules, that needs to come from an administrative stand-point...

[◄Chuck►]

(2022-10-25 15:06)megatronus8010 Wrote:  [...

The loss of 8 wasnt due to single hit. It was because I hit the blue PP50 on the road there after being hit and flying across the map.

And regarding the formula my speedo is in mph:
Its 68mph ~ 110 kmh = 110-30 = 80kmh ~ 22 m/s /7 = 3.14 SR loss which is not far off the original formula whatever it was, as you can see in the clip as it goes to 91.5 from 95.8 at first. Then i hit the PP50 as you cannot control your bike when its flying, resulting in 8 SR loss.
...

Still a wrong example. The current system gives you 6 secs of immunity after a hit, so any consecutive hits will be discarded. As I said, your example is from an early version.

(2022-10-25 15:06)megatronus8010 Wrote:  While one hit from random person can take my privilege of driving that car away.

Again, a moot point as your calculation is wrong.

[7mar]

SR kills all the fun, if u wanna drive like a grandpa, go do it in real life. people come to this videogame to do things they can't do in real life. and yes, they pick this server. why? because it has a "realistic layout" which they can drive fast on and have fun. and now, with this SR shit, u gotta drive in ur own lane, at 60km/h, worrying about a wwing or a flying first timer doofus. it's gonna die like [RC] or is gonna be full with literal NOOBS.