Bimmy m46 v10 restriction change

[RevLeon]

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LFS Mod Skin ID:  CFC963

Edit (internal): Edit

Name: BIMMY M46 V10

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After playing with the bimmy and comparing it with other cars for around a week now and multiple other people telling me that it seems slow I have to agree.

The bimmy is currently producing 345bph/ton with 30% restrictions. This might seem ok but considering what other cars are making it is merely not enough for this car to be competitive with a lot of other cars.

Examples:
Suproza = 540bhp/ton (with 27% restriction)
Bavaria a20 hell spec = 425bhp/ton
Audda r4s = 588bhp/ton
GT-V34 Mine9 = 436bhp/ton
Audda r7 RS = 417bhp/ton
East coquette = 449bhp/ton

Out of all those cars about half can keep up with the bimmy in the corners but the bimmy can't keep up with most of them on a straight line. (I tested more cars but can't remember all of them)

From the tests I have done and from what I've spoken with other people the restriction should be somewhere around 23-25%

(I would like to remind people to give valid points if you're against this change and maybe even consider giving the car a drive before you speak your thoughts. Also please refrain from things such as: but it's already OP, etc..)

[Felipe Jardim]

You can't just look at the bhp/ton figure as it's not a decisive indicator on the overall performance. Just like the other Bimmy 46 mod, this car has GTR like aero with the aero drag (resistance) much lower than the cars you cited. Aero drag doesn't affect acceleration down below, but once youre moving at a high rate of speed, naturally your acceleration drops because of wind resistance but in this case, this car keeps climbing.

Here is the specs of this car with all aero turned up.


Here is the XRR for comparison. Notice the amount of drag the GTR car has


Coquette

Mine's




The old Bimmy 46 had 297bhp/ton and no one had a problem with it. This thing has close to 500hp now i dont see why less restriction is needed.

[AnansiMaxine]

Jardim has explained it well. Also I believe that the Audda R4S and the GT-V34 Mine's should have a similar treatment in terms of minimum restriction, same reasons overall to what Jardim explained.

[RevLeon]

(2023-03-29 23:29)Felipe Jardim Wrote:  The old Bimmy 46 had 297bhp/ton and no one had a problem with it. This thing has close to 500hp now i dont see why less restriction is needed.

I'm not an expert when it comes to downforce so I won't comment much on that except that I don't think it makes that much of a difference since I already said even tho they have less downforce are still faster.
(After doing a bit of quick testing the bimmy reaches the end of Highway 1 at 260kph, the only other car that is at 260 or under is GT-V34 Mine9. In fast most of the cars actually reach 200kmh before the bimmy does)

The old bimmy had 297bhp/ton, yes but it also had more grip than this version which compensated a lot, and with 297bhp/tn it was still just as quick as this but with much more grip. Also the old bimmy had no restrictions on it so there wasn't much to complain about.

Can you please explain to me how rounding up 345bph/ton is equal to almost 500bhp? With my proposed 23%-25% it would be between 399bhp and 383bhp respectively. You're either looking at the wrong car or you're ignoring the 30% restrictions which I'm talking about.

(2023-03-30 00:27)A n a n s i Wrote:  Jardim has explained it well. Also I believe that the Audda R4S and the GT-V34 Mine's should have a similar treatment in terms of minimum restriction, same reasons overall to what Jardim explained.

If you think he explained it well you must also not have had a drive with the car or looked at the wrong car since you're agreeing with wrong numbers. If you're saying that the others should be also restricted similarly to the bimmy that would also close the gap in terms of performance difference between the cars and that would also be fine but I thought it would be easier to take 5-7% off one car than calculate it for 10+ different cars.

[Felipe Jardim]

(2023-03-30 10:21)RevLeon Wrote:  Can you please explain to me how rounding up 345bph/ton is equal to almost 500bhp? With my proposed 23%-25% it would be between 399bhp and 383bhp respectively. You're either looking at the wrong car or you're ignoring the 30% restrictions which I'm talking about.

[RevLeon]

(2023-03-30 11:16)Felipe Jardim Wrote:  

(2023-03-30 10:21)RevLeon Wrote:  Can you please explain to me how rounding up 345bph/ton is equal to almost 500bhp? With my proposed 23%-25% it would be between 399bhp and 383bhp respectively. You're either looking at the wrong car or you're ignoring the 30% restrictions which I'm talking about.

Ok I see, but please keep on topic if we're talking about bhp/ton don't mix the two up because people might not see the difference.

[Felipe Jardim]

lol "bhp" and hp/ton are two different things. If people mix the two up it's a reading issue.

I don't think i strayed off the topic, we're discussing overall performance so all variables should be accounted for beyond bhp/ton

The FZ5 has 265 bhp/ton while the LX6 has 356 bhp/ton. They both lap blackwood within a second of each other even with a 170hp (at the engine) difference.

Quote:'m not an expert when it comes to downforce so I won't comment much on that except that I don't think it makes that much of a difference since I already said even tho they have less downforce are still faster.

Downforce is definitely makes a huuuuge difference in overall performance, and so does aero drag (resistance) it makes so much of a difference that LFS changes the speedometer of any given car based on this. I will use a stock XRT to demonstrate this.


Stock XRT has a 160mph speedometer auto-generated by LFS


Here i reduced the car's aero drag by 25%, notice how the estimated top speed changed along with the speedometer.

The V10 Bimmy has GTR like aero downforce with 1/3 of the drag of the same GTR, With a proper setup its a fast car. The other bimmy felt better because it only weighed 1170kg, instead of 1490 which makes this V10 variant feel a little piggy.

[[TC] Dodo]

forum has been on fire lately, good proper explanations of physics and automotive engineering

[RevLeon]

(2023-03-30 22:48)Felipe Jardim Wrote:  lol "bhp" and hp/ton are two different things. If people mix the two up it's a reading issue.

I don't think i strayed off the topic, we're discussing overall performance so all variables should be accounted for beyond bhp/ton

The FZ5 has 265 bhp/ton while the LX6 has 356 bhp/ton. They both lap blackwood within a second of each other even with a 170hp (at the engine) difference.

Quote:'m not an expert when it comes to downforce so I won't comment much on that except that I don't think it makes that much of a difference since I already said even tho they have less downforce are still faster.

Downforce is definitely makes a huuuuge difference in overall performance, and so does aero drag (resistance) it makes so much of a difference that LFS changes the speedometer of any given car based on this. I will use a stock XRT to demonstrate this.


Stock XRT has a 160mph speedometer auto-generated by LFS


Here i reduced the car's aero drag by 25%, notice how the estimated top speed changed along with the speedometer.

The V10 Bimmy has GTR like aero downforce with 1/3 of the drag of the same GTR, With a proper setup its a fast car. The other bimmy felt better because it only weighed 1170kg, instead of 1490 which makes this V10 variant feel a little piggy.

I see what you mean in theory, but could you show me that XRT doing an extra 20km/h just by you adjusting nothing but the drag from 0.400 to 0.300? Because I did actual tests in game not just based on numbers.
The fact is that the old Bimmy with 297bhp/ton at the end on Highway 1 on Westhill you're reaching 260-265km/h, now guess how fast the v10 bimmy is reaching at the end of that straight? 260-265km/h...
Drive the car, do some tests and don't speak just based on numbers.
It could say 800km/h on the dash but if it can't even reach 300 what does it even matter?

[KiiT1337]

Needless to say that this thing about restriction to balance stuff is annoying just by its name...

And pictures of cars added, with HUGE hp, and non restricted, and ofc yours focuses on specific cars/mods, to make them "slow" or just unused, claiming they're faster than they should. Also, why not restrict all of these? To balance, just in case.

[Ghutra]

(2023-04-02 00:24)KiiT1337 Wrote:  Needless to say that this thing about restriction to balance stuff is annoying just by its name...

And pictures of cars added, with HUGE hp, and non restricted, and ofc yours focuses on specific cars/mods, to make them "slow" or just unused, claiming they're faster than they should. Also, why not restrict all of these? To balance, just in case.

Then make your own threads about adding, removing restrictions or to be removed from the modlist. This thread is specifically about the M46 V10.

[KiiT1337]

(2023-04-02 01:26)Ghutra Wrote:  

(2023-04-02 00:24)KiiT1337 Wrote:  Needless to say that this thing about restriction to balance stuff is annoying just by its name...

And pictures of cars added, with HUGE hp, and non restricted, and ofc yours focuses on specific cars/mods, to make them "slow" or just unused, claiming they're faster than they should. Also, why not restrict all of these? To balance, just in case.

Then make your own threads about adding, removing restrictions or to be removed from the modlist. This thread is specifically about the M46 V10.

But still about the same thing, restrict cars based on personal taste

[SIMOX]

This thing is ON RAILS. If you think it's slow with 30% then it might be skill issue. Also 3 eur for km is way too low for it now. It's super cheap for a GTR level car. Suproza has 20 eur/km and its not even buyable (not sure why it says it should be in the dealer)

[7mar]

make the server s2 again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RevLeon]

(2023-04-16 11:55)SIMOX Wrote:  This thing is ON RAILS. If you think it's slow with 30% then it might be skill issue. Also 3 eur for km is way too low for it now. It's super cheap for a GTR level car. Suproza has 20 eur/km and its not even buyable (not sure why it says it should be in the dealer)

All rent cars are 3 Euro per KM including other faster cars like the ferrari. I wouldn't be against making the car buyable for like 100k with 25% restrictions.

[[TC]►BP◄]

This will be marked as rejected (or at least on hold) for now. I think the restriction is sensible and we haven't had too many individuals respond here.

Also, I agree rental price is too low for many vehicles.
This is because "STDRENT" vehicles (cars which aren't yet in the dealer) have a base rental price which happens to be unreasonably low for most mods. I've made a suggestion internally about this.

[KiiT1337]

(2023-04-21 06:11)BP Wrote:  This will be marked as rejected (or at least on hold) for now. I think the restriction is sensible and we haven't had too many individuals respond here.

Also, I agree rental price is too low for many vehicles.
This is because "STDRENT" vehicles (cars which aren't yet in the dealer) have a base rental price which happens to be unreasonably low for most mods. I've made a suggestion internally about this.

Wdym y'all didnt had many respond? Everytime a post about restricting cars is put up just check the quotes under it. ITS clearly visible, just check each one.
And now the victim of the time is the old beetle, fuca 1.6 turbo, it was alright, until some of the staff cant catch it cause its fast, then BOOM 50% restriction, NICE!

What is this? A ping pong game or what? Wait until nobody is watching it and do stuff?
Thats "clever" if i can put it like that...

And again, why not restrict ALL mods to 300hp engine, why not? Its the best way out, its EASY.
Or!, make as our buddy down here said, S2 AGAIN!

(2023-04-16 12:00)7mar Wrote:  make the server s2 again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+999999

[[RDSR] Carlos]

(2023-04-16 12:00)7mar Wrote:  make the server s2 again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+9999999

[[TC]►BP◄]

Kiit, your attitude is bad and I CBA engaging with you

[Baboulinet4]

(2023-05-03 13:52)KiiT1337 Wrote:  

(2023-04-21 06:11)BP Wrote:  This will be marked as rejected (or at least on hold) for now. I think the restriction is sensible and we haven't had too many individuals respond here.

Also, I agree rental price is too low for many vehicles.
This is because "STDRENT" vehicles (cars which aren't yet in the dealer) have a base rental price which happens to be unreasonably low for most mods. I've made a suggestion internally about this.

Wdym y'all didnt had many respond? Everytime a post about restricting cars is put up just check the quotes under it. ITS clearly visible, just check each one.
And now the victim of the time is the old beetle, fuca 1.6 turbo, it was alright, until some of the staff cant catch it cause its fast, then BOOM 50% restriction, NICE!

What is this? A ping pong game or what? Wait until nobody is watching it and do stuff?
Thats "clever" if i can put it like that...

And again, why not restrict ALL mods to 300hp engine, why not? Its the best way out, its EASY.
Or!, make as our buddy down here said, S2 AGAIN!

(2023-04-16 12:00)7mar Wrote:  make the server s2 again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+999999

The Fuca, you mean, this 552hp/837kg (670hp/ton) 1940's beetle with GT3 class's levels of downforce without any wing and without any undertray?

Outside the fact that the car should produce around 130hp maximum and not 550, without any aerodynamism and tires 205mm wide, this thing should a turning ability close to the LX4 or even less, or, at the moment, this car overperforms a FZ50 GT in corners and in straights, aka a 911 GT3, which is not good.

Don't make the server S2 again :

-> stop making and / or requesting pointless and unrealistic mods <-

(This goes for the Pushback Tug too, MGFIVE tractor was funnier and removed for less.)

Want a car that can make 300kph with a high level of downforce? Make a Gumpert Apollo, a Caparo T1, a 911 GT2RS, an AMG One, AMG GT Black Series or a Zenvo TSR-S or whatever car is at the top of the Nordshleife leaderboard, pay it 350.000€ in-game and have a 0.5€ income.

Don't make a magic undertray with 1536 Newtons of downforce to a stock 1940's beetle body, and don't add magically 400hp to a 1940's air cooled inline 4 even with a Turbo.

Because at this point, i'd rather do my 1st gen Citroen C3 in the game, make it 2000hp from a tuned 2JZ-GTE that I put somewhere in the car, oh and I borrowed the fan from the McMurtry Speirling , so my C3 now makes 9G in corners, what a car ! Seriously.

This is the same for the Bimmers, I'm not asking for something incredible, just, realistic physics.

Remove the downforce, or put a VERY LITTLE bit of it, put the real power and torque numbers, and we're good.

(3398 Newtons of downforce on the Bimmer V10 version, more than -> a 2006 Formula One car at equal wing angles <- (yes, the BF1.), for real?)

Same for the Fuca. If it had realistic numbers, i'd be okay with it.

Keep the performance numbers stock, or at least, realistic for the car.