- User report - 1stBFA Wings (Archived by Pipa)

[[TC]►Bez◄]

● Your LFS Username: mikebez

● Their LFS Username(s): joko 98
● Their LFS GameName(s): 1stBFA Wings

● Replay and/or Screenshot Link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kfcc6apl2ppnb1j/Wings.mpr
● Replay Timestamps:

• 16:30.00 - User tries to push past me and causes me to crash because of his "Bully" driving method.
• After confronting him about it he has the cheek to say I tried pushing him into the barrier and I do not receive a sorry. User has total disregard for other drivers. I understand he was in a chase but gives him to right to drive with this "bully" attitude.

● Description of incident (inc Date & Time) 7/10/13 @ 16:40 I was driving down the highway reaching the bottom of the highway onto the corners as Wings comes aggressively charging up behind me then tries to aggressively push his way past me as a UF1 is tipped over on a single road, causing me to spin out. He blames this on me for "Turning into him" when all I was doing was holding my line.

[Pipa]

This report is being looked into. Please be patient.

[Pipa]

As far as i see it there was sufficient place for two cars next to each other. You might not appreciate him overtaking you like that and scraping you slightly, but we should keep in mind he was in a chase and there was a car blocking his side. Personally i find slightly scraping a car not quite a big deal and if you continued normally i am sure he would have apologised for it.

BUT you then continued to turn into his path, although you could have easily kept to the right side.



Might not have been the best place to overtake, but i don't see any innocent party here so i won't take action. Will leave it open incase you want to respond.

[[TC]►Bez◄]

As I said I was holding my line going around the corner like I normally do. The reason my car steers into his, is the fact he hits my rear end when hitting the barrier causing a pit on me that I break because of. There's no need to overtake like a dribble on such a tight corner even if he was in a chase. The rules state respect other players, trying to scrape your way past on a corner then cause the person you're trying to overtake to crash and not even saying sorry.

Seems pretty much his fault as I was normally keeping my line not adjusting at all to cause him to crash into the barrier. He was just being irresponsible by trying to push his way past when he knew that's a slow tight corner to get around causing him to hit into the barrier then pit me into his path...

[Pipa]

I agree that he was certainly not respecting you in that corner, but the crash was your fault.
There was enough space for both of you and even in a racing server where "holding my line" belongs, you still have to give room to someone with sufficient overlap. But since we are on citydriving server this is rather irrelevant.

You both did a very minor thing wrong, so i can either punish both of you or none.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

E: If you want i can let my supervisor look over this, if you feel that you are being treated unfairly by me.

[[TC]►Bez◄]

I don't understand how I'd need to receive punishment for something I haven't done wrong in? All I doing was driving respectfully and normally then "hotwheels" here decides he's going to call an stupid overtake with a tipped UF1 on his side. He had no reason to pass me like he did or cause me to spin. His cop was even 5-7 seconds away from him so he wasn't under pressure to try and pull an stupid overtake like he did. If he had waited for me to exit the corners I would of allowed him to pass by yielding to the right, but no he doesn't have any respect and even keep the accelerator on when he pits me...

[Pipa]

My decision stands. If you are not happy with it, i will give you the opportunity to have a supervisor look over it.

[◄Chuck►]

Sorry, I know its not the normal protocol but I can't help to interfere.
I kinda agree with Bez here. It's up to the overtaking car to choose whether to overtake or not, whether it's safe or not. And, as mentioned above, this particular stretch is certainly a very bad place to overtake. He chooses to overtake, not the other one, so he takes the risk and he's also responsible if it goes wrong, like seen here.
I also don't see space for two cars. Not, unless the "overtakee" has to move from his line and actively give space to the overtaker, which he is, by no means, obliged to.
There is no rule saying someone must give space, they may do so but that's optional.
It's up to the overtaker to wait for a safe opportunity, just like in real life.

The fact that 1stBFA Wings was chased certainly increased the level of risk-taking, but still, that's not the way to overtake. A warning seems appropriate unless he apologised already.
Just imagine the name "[TC]Josh" over the green car and look at the image again, you'll see what I mean

[Pipa]

(2013-10-08 06:30)Chuck Wrote:  Sorry, I know its not the normal protocol but I can't help to interfere.
I kinda agree with Bez here. It's up to the overtaking car to choose whether to overtake or not, whether it's safe or not.

I didn't disagree with that and forcing himself past like that is certainly disrespecting the person infront of him.

(2013-10-08 06:30)Chuck Wrote:  I also don't see space for two cars. Not, unless the "overtakee" has to move from his line and actively give space to the overtaker, which he is, by no means, obliged to.

The .gif clearly shows that they both fitted through that part of the track.
However Bez decides to pull into a space that is occupied by another car, thereby provoking an accident that could have been prevented if he just stayed right. He knew he was there, but turned into him anyway.

Rule 1.2 specifically says "provoking accidents" which to me they are at this point both guilty off

(2013-10-08 06:30)Chuck Wrote:  Just imagine the name "[TC]Josh" over the green car and look at the image again, you'll see what I mean

Not seen Josh loose his cool and nudge someone into a barrier/amco yet.

Edit: Incase the .gif didn't make my point obvious.

[[TC]►Bez◄]

But as I'm saying clearly, I never provoked an accident all I was doing was taking the corners like I always do keeping my normal line. I never turned into him at all. Why should I be forced to yield to a "bully" driver? If he had waited until the after the chicane to pass non of this would of happened?

All Wings is doing is trying to push past me, scraping my car then causing me to crash as he hits the barrier due to me taking the corner as I would normally do, unless of course there were sirens behind me. (At particular moment there were no visible sirens on my screen)

I don't think at all you're treating me unfairly Pipa. I just see a bad judgement on your behalf.

[Pipa]

Just to let you know, it is being discussed behind closed doors now. So another update might take a bit.

[[TC]»Elmo«]

Right, I haven't posted in the internal thread yet, nor have I watched the replay (no time, need sleep, but the gif and peoples descriptions of the replay give me a decent idea). However, I have a few points to add that I think everyone involved should probably think about.


Wings was being slightly too aggressive trying to get past in that particular place, although to be fair there was room and he likely didn't expect another car to be blocking his intended line.
I have seen much worse from others being chased and I'm sure you're no exception.

You were being too aggressive by deliberately pushing a car you knew was there into the barrier.


In racing, if you push someone who has a clear overlap off the track or into a wall *because you were taking your normal line*, would you expect to get a penalty for it? (hint: yes)

In real life, if someone brushed past you enough to scrape, but not unsettle your car, would you shove them into a ditch/barrier? (hint: if you think yes, I hope to never meet you on the road)

(Most people probably consider normal driving on our servers to be somewhere between that of real life road driving and racing, so I think both analogies apply)

(2013-10-08 10:47)Bez Wrote:  I don't think at all you're treating me unfairly Pipa. I just see a bad judgement on your behalf.

So being fair is bad judgement?

IMO, you both did something wrong, and if anything, what you did Bez was worse. There's a difference between being too aggressive and deliberately shoving another car into a barrier. Retaliation does not in any way make what you did OK.

Pipa was considering that both of you did something equally wrong and that either both or neither of you should be punished.
TBH, he's being *very* fair and the only potential bad judgement I see is that he's not treating deliberately shoving another car into a barrier as worse. I'd stop complaining if I were you.

[[TC]►Bez◄]

"You were being too aggressive by deliberately pushing a car you knew was there into the barrier."

• I hadn't deliberately shoved anyone into a barrier though?!
• I really don't understand how you can say I am when I didn't turn into him at all. He decided he wanted to put himself in that situation by trying to squeeze past at the most stupid moment.
• I hadn't pushed him at all his car came into contact with mine not the other way around lets remember here he's trying his best to push past me on a stupid corner to overtake as Chucks already stated.

"he likely didn't expect another car to be blocking his intended line."

• He saw me in front of him before the corner as he raced up behind me struggling to break.
• He knew a slower car was in front of him from the first corner.
• He saw a UF1 tipped yet still tries to overtake stupidly.
• He's at full acceleration trying to squeeze past me using no breaks at any point even on inpact with the barrier. Surely as he see's me turning into the corner he'd think to break and not try to ram his way past.
• His car I'm sure as all others have breaks, that he did not use he just floored his accelerator to try get past me.
  

There's no need for driving like a dribble on a cruise servers that's supposed to be realistic enough to have real road laws.

Again with the racing quote. (This is not a racing server, nor does any blue flag come into a cruise server.)

"So being fair is bad judgement?"

Me and Pipa have a past, I'm sure he's put it behind him like I have. This is what I meant about being fair.

[Pipa]

I have told you numerous times what the problem was and even a leader has commented on this case, if you still don't see why there will be no action taken then we will never reach that stage.

If i were you i would slowly read through Elmo's post again, as it does indeed answer all of your questions.

---

No action has been taken for reasons described.

Thank you for your report.

It has now been moved to the archives.