Overpowered COPs

[Adorable]

Hello ladies and gentlemen, this thread is made to talk about how I think COPs are much stronger than suspects in so many ways, lets start:

• Endless amount of roadblocks.
  
  COPs are permitted to setup as many roadblocks as they want, and wherever. It could be just 1 person setting up roadblocks every lap and in the every section of the map you drive. It could be 2 persons blocking the entire road.
  
  (-) Suspect is getting slowed down.
• Endless amount of backups. (or let's say 10-8 COPs online)
  
  With most of the playerbase being peoples rocking thousands and thousands of hours under their belt, It can be a challenge to escape 4 experienced COPs, let alone the entire server.
  
  (-) Chases are very long, not fun, COPs outnumber suspect by a respectable margin.
• Inability to overtake other chases.
  
  Often times a chase will get in your way, as a suspect you may not overtake, and risk getting banned if you do. you have no alternative but to U turn which means yet again you're giving the COPs a chance to box your car.
  
  (-) Same as above.
• Suspect car slowly gets damaged.
  
  Let's face it, it is near impossible to escape COPs that coordinate properly. Even if you're faster, you'll get slowed down by traffic, by roadblocks, new COPs will join with new tyres/suspension. chases are guaranteed to last for a significant amount of time. And It only gets worse in little tracks like South City, bridges, or highways or one way areas like the Autobahn's roundabout / autobahn bridges.
  
  (-) Same as above.
• The list goes on and on...
  

From what I've noticed the gameplay is severely balanced in favor of COPs, (some of them have 80-90% win rates), most suspects on the other hand are in the range of 50-60s%.

Those are some possible solutions that I thought of, they do not harm COPs capabilities very much but they could be a [good equalizer/ a start in the right direction], they also do not require much input from InSim devs or the [TC] team, implementation is just a matter of little rule/police guide modification.

• Limited number of roadblocks
• 6 (maximum) COPs per chase
  

-> Fix the gameplay. /thread
TL;DR: COPs have way too many advantages over suspects, nerf COPs?

Edit: Cleanup - 19/12

[[TC]►Carl◄]

Part of the game is actually getting caught. If you choose to run from the police when there are a few cops on all communicating with each other then that is the challenge you will face. Traffic is part of the game too, if you get caught in traffic you just have to accept you've lost or find a safe alternative route. But in my experience, it doesn't happen that often to warrant your suggestion in my opinion, I see you frustration but it's part of the game.

[[TC] Shino]

I really don't think the cop system is an issue? It's generally not that hard to escape cops if you know how to drive. Although I see your point about cops 'wrecking your ass' when you slow down as to not overtake a chase infront, maybe you just got unlucky with the cops chasing you. I've seen plenty of cops wait behind the suspect when there is a chase infront, waiting for an opportunity to safely pass and resume the chase.


Although I do agree somethings are unfair like 1 FXO against 4 FZ5's is quite unfair towards the robber. At the same time I do think you might be over reacting slightly.

[Dino]

Well, had a chase yesterday where I was suspect and it lasted over an hour. Total cops 12 (2 busted, 10 escaped), with 3-4 cops roadblocking at the same time after losing contact. Of course it's hard to escape, since you keep gaining damage and "fresh" cops can join at any point. But I guess that's the task for suspects - and it should remain a tough challenge. After all you are running from the police and being caught should be the "usual" expected case.

[[TC]►BP◄]

Quote:Fix the gameplay. end of.

Good ol' rage suggestion

[Adorable]

It doesn't require a genius to realize that there's an imbalance. Statistics from 2 years ago: the fastest drivers of [TC], talking of the likes of Angel and other regulars, most of them have a win ratio (as a robber) of 50%, as a [COP], it's ~80-90%. I think I do not need to interpret any further here.

Seeing the poll and comments it appears that this is a dead end, so yeah.

Some commented that I'm over-reacting, others said it's frustration , I personally don't care about winning or losing a chase nor do I care what you think. I'm just saying chases aren't fun any longer, we've got what appears to me like an issue, if you're okay with the game as it is, that's fine! if you don't or you have a different opinion you could present your POV instead of posting your classic gif or your "Good ol' rage suggestion" comments. Provided your objective is to work out something or being constructive other than mocking other peoples.

thanks

[Dino]

Did you get busted in a long chase today after losing a few cops?

[Getrag]

I agree with Adorable this coping shouldnt be acceptable its really becoming a joke. Too much agressive cops, too much but i mean rly too much force even tho rules say reasonable amount. Cops just trying to ram you into barrier then leaving my car with twice shorter axle and messed up chassis to the point my whole tyre is visible. Im sorry but its not coping leaving your car messed up everytime especially cops with high pings. You may not see it as issue but go ahead ignore it and then dont cry when u have to deal with chaos everyday. Just dont try to make us as fools and try convince us different. Its a clear issue and you wont change our minds, ppl who are okay with it are usually ones who are abusing the power. Cheers.

[[TC]►BP◄]

Adorable Wrote:Some commented that I'm over-reacting, others said it's frustration , I personally don't care about winning or losing a chase nor do I care what you think. I'm just saying chases aren't fun any longer, we've got what appears to me like an issue, if you're okay with the game as it is, that's fine! if you don't or you have a different opinion you could present your POV instead of posting your classic gif or your "Good ol' rage suggestion" comments. Provided your objective is to work out something or being constructive other than mocking other peoples.

I was just commenting on your demanding tone at the end of your suggestion. Posting suggestions whilst emotional will generate further emotional responses and this doesn't help anybody really.

I will respond to your suggestion in segments.

Quote:COPs can call an infinity of COPs as backups, on top of having roadblocks

It's not infinite backup. There is a finite amount of cops, and cops can't re-!join the same chase. I'm sure you're aware of this information, but I'd just like to clear that up for anyone who took this at face-value.

Quote:Cars in chase CANNOT overtake other chases, meaning if another chase is infront of you. You're doomed, COPs behind will catch up and start wrecking your ass

You could overtake if completely safe (chases must respect each other), or turn off at the earliest opportunity, or do a U-Turn when safe. Of course, not all of these options would be possible on the Autobahn. On Kyoto, maybe avoiding the Autobahn as much as possible during a chase would be the best idea.

Quote:COPs are the ones excercing force and throwing cars around, causing damage, COPs also have the ability to push towards barriers

For reference, the current rule is:

Quote:5.4. Force / Physical Contact

Any force used must be calculated and tactical. The direct impact of intentional contact should cause very minor or ideally no damage to either car. Ramming is forbidden

The rules perhaps ought to be clearer. That said, there's lots of different scenarios, and that makes it difficult. Hopefully we (the team) can have another look at that in the near future.

Note: The rule for suspects is:

Quote:3.10. Force

You are permitted to use minor force/physical contact to evade arrest, but no more than the force cops are permitted to use on you. See 5.4.
You are permitted to use the force necessary (including moderate rams) to break through a roadblock. Avoid damaging the cops as far as possible. Using unreasonable or excessive force (like running flat out intentionally in the roadblock) is forbidden.

Quote:COPs often make mistakes and what they do is put a sorry bind and carry on the chase till suspect gets busted

If a particular cop continuously makes mistakes, they should be reported. Forum report would be best. Saying sorry doesn't help if the same mistake is being repeated.

Quote:Maybe a start would be limiting cops capabilities when it comes to setting up roadblocks, ie COPs may not move until both suspect + COPs have passed, maybe limit the amount of roadblocks that can be setup, because it's also just stupid that the same one COP is setting up every roadblock every lap no matter the location you drive.

I personally don't think we should limit anything like this. I would rather just see higher cop standards, which would include cops being more selective and careful in their use of force. This isn't something which can be changed overnight which I'm sure you can understand.

---

(2018-12-16 16:22)Getrag Wrote:  I agree with Adorable this coping shouldnt be acceptable its really becoming a joke. Too much agressive cops, too much but i mean rly too much force even tho rules say reasonable amount. Cops just trying to ram you into barrier then leaving my car with twice shorter axle and messed up chassis to the point my whole tyre is visible. Im sorry but its not coping leaving your car messed up everytime especially cops with high pings.

If a cop is using force excessively, I'd encourage you to report them. Forum report would be best. The rest of your post was unnecessarily ill-mannered, so if you choose to contribute to this thread again, please attempt to be more civil.

[Titan]

in one case I agree with MR.AD ... even if it's only one

why can not the suspect overtake another chase?

it is a pursuit synonymous with that I have to count as a cop ... if cops can call 10k bk then you could also drive past another chase...


BP, what gestag means is that you can make a chase so bad that you can not report it....

an incident is enough with a small sorry and the chase is over ....

BP I think you know the little tricks just like me .. if you use them, everyone has to decide for themselves

To be honest I can tell you immediately 5 cops that use such tricks....



PS: SOME1 is responsible for the bad english!

[[TC] Stephen]

Suspects can still pit cops you know, you might make a misjudgement and they end up hitting a barrier and flipping, that's just bad luck to them. You aren't banned from using any force on cops

[[TC]►Petsu◄]

These days being robber is awful after Mary came up. Cops being able to see your inputs and location is way too overpowering. Only way to escape without luck on your side is to just be faster, consistent and try keep tyre temps low in a long run.

[South]

If you are fast enough, you don't need to complain about it. Also I think suspect's job is more easier than cop. In 1v1 its impossible to box the suspect with yourself (If he knows driving little bit). As Stephen said, cops and suspects got same amount of force right. If you can't escape, thats not because cops are too overpowered, thats because you slow.

[Adorable]

South Wrote:thats because you slow.

Being fast definitely helps, but It appears to me like you've never been in a situation where every lap two cops are blocking your path, or an XFR joins as backup, best of luck being fast in that case .

BP Wrote:I'm sure you're aware of this information, but I'd just like to clear that up for anyone who took this at face-value.

Don't that you feel that 4COPs on 1 suspect and then once every COPs leaves the chase another one replaces him is a bit too much? (often times 10 COPs are online simultaneously) you've also missed one key component:

Spoiler (Click to View)

(2018-12-16 15:02)Adorable Wrote:  

• Endless amount of roadblocks.
  
  COPs are permitted to setup as many roadblocks as they want, and wherever. It could be just 1 person setting up roadblocks every lap and in the every section of the map you drive. It could be 2 persons blocking the entire road.

[[TC]►BP◄]

You edited that text in after I had posted.

In any case, IMO that is just part and parcel of the game.

edit:

I did say this:

BP Wrote:

Quote:Maybe a start would be limiting cops capabilities when it comes to setting up roadblocks, ie COPs may not move until both suspect + COPs have passed, maybe limit the amount of roadblocks that can be setup, because it's also just stupid that the same one COP is setting up every roadblock every lap no matter the location you drive.

I personally don't think we should limit anything like this. I would rather just see higher cop standards, which would include cops being more selective and careful in their use of force. This isn't something which can be changed overnight which I'm sure you can understand.

[Brendon]

Only issue with the cop system is the following...

I don't agree with this "overpowered" thing since this is just the way this server is making fun. And if you are fast enough, you can get away from the cops, since they can't rejoin the same chase again (the cops that lost you in the chase).

In my opinion, the bigger issue is the way some unexperienced cops / suspects are acting. Last week, Kyoto was a perfect example.

I don't want to mention names, but they probably know that I'm speaking about them. And I don't really care, this is my honest opinion and I won't lie.

First of all, I clearly understand the way sirens work. And I ALWAYS pull over and give way for the cops. The much bigger problem is that, some cops make use of this. One example was last week, wednesday or thursday (I don't know anymore) a cop set up a roadblock way way before the suspect was approaching. What happened, of course?

The players driving high speed on the autobahn got stuck before the roadblock, everyone stopped before the road block, a traffic jam occured before the roundabout. So they actually used us, normal players to stop the suspect, who was coming high speed and crashed everyone. And the suspect didn't care. He wanted to make his way through the players, but we couldn't move because of the roadblock infront of us. In my opinion, this doesn't make sense.

As far as I know THE SUSPECT DOESN'T HAVE SIRENS. But most of the people think they can do anything if they are in a chase.

Other thing is what I saw, too sudden moves (by the suspect and by the cop too), and wrong waying on autobahn. Maybe it's my fault, correct me if I'm wrong. If there is a chase in the pits next to the autobahn and I see they are really slow, I will not stop on the autobahn because of the sirens. In theory, this may be the correct way to deal with sirens, but LITERALLY nobody does that. So in this situation (you are driving 200 on autobahn) and the suspect goes wrong way in the pits and he pulls infront of you from the pits with 0 km/h without looking from the middle of nowhere. No way to stop. But the bigger problem is, the cop did the same shit. Without looking.

Other thing is, many many cops can't deal with situations. I saw a suspect going wrong way on autobahn and then what do I see ? The cop follows him wrong way with siren on. What the hell?

To summarise this, I really think there are

1. Way too many cops on the servers, sometimes causing a chaos of sirens, especially on small maps.
2. From these many cops, at least 50% can't deal with situations

I think, it would be better, if there were LESS COPS ---> with much experience, than
WAY TOO MANY COPS ---> with no brain.

[[RDSR] Mr.GBR]

(2018-12-19 15:57)Swift Wrote:  Only issue with the cop system is the following...

I don't agree with this "overpowered" thing since this is just the way this server is making fun. And if you are fast enough, you can get away from the cops, since they can't rejoin the same chase again (the cops that lost you in the chase).

In my opinion, the bigger issue is the way some unexperienced cops / suspects are acting. Last week, Kyoto was a perfect example.

I don't want to mention names, but they probably know that I'm speaking about them. And I don't really care, this is my honest opinion and I won't lie.

First of all, I clearly understand the way sirens work. And I ALWAYS pull over and give way for the cops. The much bigger problem is that, some cops make use of this. One example was last week, wednesday or thursday (I don't know anymore) a cop set up a roadblock way way before the suspect was approaching. What happened, of course?

The players driving high speed on the autobahn got stuck before the roadblock, everyone stopped before the road block, a traffic jam occured before the roundabout. So they actually used us, normal players to stop the suspect, who was coming high speed and crashed everyone. And the suspect didn't care. He wanted to make his way through the players, but we couldn't move because of the roadblock infront of us. In my opinion, this doesn't make sense.

As far as I know THE SUSPECT DOESN'T HAVE SIRENS. But most of the people think they can do anything if they are in a chase.

Other thing is what I saw, too sudden moves (by the suspect and by the cop too), and wrong waying on autobahn. Maybe it's my fault, correct me if I'm wrong. If there is a chase in the pits next to the autobahn and I see they are really slow, I will not stop on the autobahn because of the sirens. In theory, this may be the correct way to deal with sirens, but LITERALLY nobody does that. So in this situation (you are driving 200 on autobahn) and the suspect goes wrong way in the pits and he pulls infront of you from the pits with 0 km/h without looking from the middle of nowhere. No way to stop. But the bigger problem is, the cop did the same shit. Without looking.

Other thing is, many many cops can't deal with situations. I saw a suspect going wrong way on autobahn and then what do I see ? The cop follows him wrong way with siren on. What the hell?

To summarise this, I really think there are

1. Way too many cops on the servers, sometimes causing a chaos of sirens, especially on small maps.
2. From these many cops, at least 50% can't deal with situations

I think, it would be better, if there were LESS COPS ---> with much experience, than
WAY TOO MANY COPS ---> with no brain.

Hi ,

I don't normally reach out, however, couldn't help myself. What your basically saying that in your opinion there should be fewer Police Officer(s) but with more experience and less of these cops that have

Swift Wrote:"No Brain"

, i.e. just less cops in general.

Now, i'm pretty sure you've been around the community long enough to know it's a Cops and Robbers server, given it's namesake Traffic Cops, and that it's based upon the REAL LIFE interpretations of Cops & Robbers, in REAL LIFE you'd have many many Police Officers, in fact so many that they actually out-number the Thief and not just by 4 but by 8 or 10 or 12. Now you're suggestion is to reduce the amount of Cops allowed in the Server at any one time, this would defeat the object of the [TC] Servers being as close to reality as physically possible. Wouldn't you agree Swift? .

Inside this thread, all I have seen is that it's a thread "crying" about how some officer's on the server are inexperienced make wrong moves & that there are too many of them, well, you need to expect that in the server (oh and in real life), learn to just cope with what it is, which means that not everyone is a so-called expert, or an actual Real Life Police Officer with Advanced Driving qualifications. Oh and using that brilliant thing called the reporting a player feature on the InSim or even better on the forums, or even better than that just talking to them, as education is better than punishment . Grow up and learn to expect these things as it's as BP has said "part & parcel of the game".

*Rant Over*

[Brendon]

You won't change my opinion and nobody will.
I think it's not enough to fill out a test that has 20 questions (or so I already forgot), pass the test and hurrayy he is a cop.

I think cops should be tested much further on-road and that there shouldn't be cop licence given to some noob, who asked the right answers from some guy who already passed the test.

Oh and yes I don't consider myself as a "good cop" but hey, that's why I'm not copping.

[Titan]

everyone starts off small ... and if he makes mistakes the license is gone .... most of the time a cop training comes up ... there is no perfect cop

[THE WIZARD DK]

i think the cop system is okay actually.

its more how its used by those being cops.

too many wrong ways, and too many gets mad from hits.

overpowered. yes i think in some cases/chases , sometimes it seems like it a bit unfair. or getting out of hand.

but again. i think its how its used. regarding roadblocks forexample. i think it would equal out alot for the suspect if , (maybe) one or two police cars in a chase could set roadblocks up.

sometimes i have seen like 4-5 roadblocks on ky oval simultaniously. that makes alot of traffic jams too. and also cops parked at road sides.
not always the best spots they choose and not always the safest spots for laser or what they do.

today alone ive seen 5 cops parked so near to the road they would defo get hit if someone missed the apex just a tiny bit. (and one did). causing a bigger crash situation than if parked safely away from the road side and turns.

i think a little basic training (not just license) would help alot too.
especially with the ww.

with that said.
i think a few adjustments here and there would do it . all in all i kinda like this cop system.
but i also see some of things mentioned here could need a new review maybe .

have fun.