Civil Should NOT Tow!

[[TC]»Elmo«]

(2013-04-12 22:14)Johan. Wrote:  As up-side-down moving doesn't count as moving on a certain speed, this shouldn't be causing any other problems.

InSim has no knowledge of the pitch or roll of a car, only horizontal heading. It also only has the absolute (accurate) speed the car itself is moving, it has no knowledge of the wheel speed.

[◄Chuck►]

Mutual respect is the keyword. Civilians should not interfere with a tow at work, but also tows should not interfere if their help is not requested. Always make sure the other wants your help. If that's case, I don't see a problem.

[=WOLF=[NO]]

(2013-04-12 21:41)Michi Wrote:  

(2013-04-12 21:40)BoYaqoub Wrote:  Not all Civil can tow. Some just ram and ending with "Getting in wrong route" for the towed car.

same applies to TOW's.

I accualy prefer someone I know passing by, than a tow ramming me for money
I guess there is a huge difference in tow's, and same goes for civvies

I prefer a fammiliar face, regardless of tow tag tbh, my main goal, is to get back on the road in one piece

[Cola]

I really do prefer being towed by a regular in the server, or just any civilian. Most Tows in my head recently, is just the newcomers who can't become cops yet, and want to feel important.

[SO•Yukine]

I like to see cruisers help when there is no tow on the scene, but I dislike see cruisers try to help in same time of tow because a lot of cruisers just ram for help (Nota: I never say all), and a lot make the tow-work more hard..

There is my opinion, my English suck & I want a cookie~

[Cobra]

(2013-04-13 13:45)Renko Wrote:  I like to see cruisers help when there is no tow on the scene, but I dislike see cruisers try to help in same time of tow because a lot of cruisers just ram for help (Nota: I never say all), and a lot make the tow-work more hard..

There is my opinion, my English suck & I want a cookie~

Am of the same opinion like you.

It´s strictly forbidden to interfering with a Police chase on Server.

This should be made also for the Tow and Med too.

I have often enough experienced it if 5 cars or more try to put again on the wheels.

Mostly ends then with a mass accident.

Report's and terms of abuse because nobody has braked or has seen the warning signals

[Val]

To my mind, I support both sides.

Firstly, I understand when there is someone who is on a long trip and wants to be helped by someone competent, it is something I like too. Or else when you want to help your friends or teammate, this is understandable.
The number of "victims" of incompetence (I mean ramming) by TOW, MED, RES or even civilian is imestinable, if at every time we keep to lose the trip bonus, it is quite normal to ask for help to friends and not to call emergency.

But in another point of view, if I'm new to the server and I can be only a TOW/MED/RES, I would be happy to have an emergency call, I'd less bored and I would make new friends for example.
Imagine that on 10 emergency calls and of these 10, there are 8 that were canceled because a civilian helped the man or it was just a fake call.

Honestly, I am disgusted to be a TOW / MED / RES by those kind of actions.

Civilians can not help the police (which is normal after all) but can help emergency services. I think it is quite unfair.

Another unfair thing is that emergency services are not really governed by the rules of servers while the cops are.
So anyone can use any means (high speed ram per example) to help the person in danger at the risk of losing his bonus, even the robbers who are in chase, which is quite stupid and unrealistic.

Do not forget the dozen people trying with difficulty to help the person who called the emergency and those units are expecting that peoples who are on the scene leaving their jobs.

I think that putting a bit of equality, by any means, between jobs would make the atmosphere, especially between civilians and emergency units, better than it is actually.

[Kayla]

(2013-04-13 15:02)Val Wrote:  But in another point of view, if I'm new to the server and I can be only a TOW/MED/RES, I would be happy to have an emergency call, I'd less bored and I would make new friends for example.
Imagine that on 10 emergency calls and of these 10, there are 8 that were canceled because a civilian helped the man or it was just a fake call.

somehow true point there.

(2013-04-13 15:02)Val Wrote:  Honestly, I am disgusted to be a TOW / MED / RES by those kind of actions.

Civilians can not help the police (which is normal after all) but can help emergency services. I think it is quite unfair.

Civ's can't help COPs during chases or investigations in real life, too. At least they aren't allowed to usually (except of being a witness). You would never see a civilian doing a roadblock or doing a PIT maneuver on a suspect being chased. In difference there are actually quite a lot of people who stop at crashed cars or similar to help. They just don't tow them, because of insurance issues (police has to be there here in germany) or not having the correct utilities to TOW. Since we don't have them either in LFS, a TOW car and a usual civ car aren't different in any way, except of the skin and TOW's got insim commands.

(2013-04-13 15:02)Val Wrote:  Another unfair thing is that emergency services are not really governed by the rules of servers while the cops are.
So anyone can use any means (high speed ram per example) to help the person in danger at the risk of losing his bonus, even the robbers who are in chase, it is quite stupid and unrealistic.

It's a cops & robber server, what do you expect? Chases are often more dangerous and unpredictable in difference to a TOW. the TOW'ing is kinda stationary and local, and you can expect that at least one half of the road is kind of blocked. A chase can block the road at any point due to a PIT maneuver making the suspect spin all over the road, or similar. So there is a protection needed for chases, TOW's are also somehow protected (Rules 1.13, 1.14, 7.x [last one just explains the rules for TOW's])

(2013-04-13 15:02)Val Wrote:  Do not forget the dozen people trying with difficulty to help the person who called the emergency and those units are expecting that peoples who are on the scene leaving their jobs.

I think that putting a bit of equality, by any means, between jobs would make the atmosphere, between civilians and emergency units, better than it is actually.

Same applies to TOW's, RES' and MED's. They have difficulties to TOW people sometimes as well, since they are basically nothing else than civilians with a TOW-/RES-/MED-Skin and a few insim commands. So there basically is no difference. (Except of that some people do try to get experienced in TOWing more than some civilians)

[Val]

[TC]►Michi◄ Wrote:Civ's can't help COPs during chases or investigations in real life, too. At least they aren't allowed to usually (except of being a witness). You would never see a civilian doing a roadblock or doing a PIT maneuver on a suspect being chased.

As like as I said, it is normal and understandable.

[TC]►Michi◄ Wrote:Since we don't have them either in LFS, a TOW car and a usual civ car aren't different in any way, except of the skin and TOW's got insim commands. [...]
It's a cops & robber server, what do you expect? Chases are often more dangerous and unpredictable in difference to a TOW. the TOW'ing is kinda stationary and local, and you can expect that at least one half of the road is kind of blocked. A chase can block the road at any point due to a PIT maneuver making the suspect spin all over the road, or similar. So there is a protection needed for chases, TOW's are also somehow protected (Rules 1.13, 1.14, 7.x [last one just explains the rules for TOW's])

On my last post, I pointed out the recurring problems that affect tow job.
I understand that this is a cops & robber server, but it is a shame that the TOW / MED / RES system isn't really rich and it does not change as much and as fast than the others things. It has good evolved since the time and I really appreciated it.
TOW / MED / RES are still a part of the game which I think is increasingly neglected by usually players and somehow unpopular.

And thank you for your reply .

[[TC]»Elmo«]

(2013-04-13 15:02)Val Wrote:  Civilians can not help the police (which is normal after all) but can help emergency services. I think it is quite unfair.

Another unfair thing is that emergency services are not really governed by the rules of servers while the cops are.
So anyone can use any means (high speed ram per example) to help the person in danger at the risk of losing his bonus, even the robbers who are in chase, which is quite stupid and unrealistic.

A few things to point out.

A TOW is not an emergency service, it's a civilian. They have extra InSim commands and a special skin for extra visibility and to make the job easier.
In reality, it is very rare for the emergency services themselves to actually attempt to recover a vehicle unless it is in a dangerous place and/or causing a blockage, in which case they will simply move it.
Normally, either the Police or the owner of the vehicle will call for a civilian recovery vehicle.


Once on scene, MED/RES have no priority over a TOW. If anything, the TOW would have the priority to do the actual towing, as that's their primary job.

Even now, no-one's been able to come up for a role for MED/RES that makes sense or is useful other than traffic management and assisting a TOW if needed or if a TOW is unavailable.

If one MED/RES, one civilian and no TOWs are at the scene, then it would actually be more useful for the civilian to do the actual towing (provided the civilian is competent of course) and the MED/RES park somewhere visible and manage the traffic.


If we're talking realism, as people can't get injured, MED/RES are basically useless in LFS. For all practical intents and purposes, MED/RES are basically TOW vehicles with low-priority lights & sirens.

Calling them "emergency services" is probably pushing things too far - on the whole, there's no actual emergency or particularly time-sensitive task for them to do, unless there's a blockage on a particularly dangerous stretch of road (ie Autobahn). If there is then it's probably a good idea for a civilian that's on scene to move the blockage, rather than having to wait for a MED/RES that's several minutes away.



Police & chases have the rules that they do, because that's the main focus of our servers - we treat it like a sport and the rules are there to make it as fair and fun as possible for both sides.

[Val]

Understood.

I had a point of view that was different and partly wrong from the server and your. Thank you Elmo for clarifying many points that were in the dark and I think, will also serve others.

[Paul]

(2013-04-12 21:28)Mikee Wrote:  Erm no, If someone is flipped and I can help them, im not just going to sit there and watch.

Pretty much what I thought when readin this thread.

Some Civils' are even better than tows.

[James]

If I see someone flipped, more than likely there isnt a [TOW] in sight or they are drifting/racing amongst their friends (or other [TOW]/[MED] units). So if I see someone flipped I will go flip them over.

If you get all angry about it, its not my fault because from my time in [TC], there has hardly been anyone who takes up the [TOW]/[MED] unit until recently I guess ? So, ive been used to random drivers flipping me over and the same applies to them im sure. Im not the best [TOW] neither but Ive seen some absolutely disgraceful towing sometimes. Not to mention, ive been shoved out of the way by several [TOW]s in the past as I was about to flip someone over. It just so happened the [TOW] unit was literally racing by.


Just thought id add, most people dont know how to work the insim because they dont read the rules nor do they care to unless they get banned.