Bonus System Discussion

[McGherkin]

Pwned.

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[Pipa]

That sounds pretty good Marius, but the old bonus system also rewarded people that were speeding. After roughly 300-350km you could floor the fz5 and earn money.

[MoliskScout]

As others pointed it out this change removes a goal from the game.
For me it was most important. I mostly join with a goal to reach 200, 500, 1000 Km. Depending on how much time I have.

Sure, I was driving above speed limit.. mostly on +0, but staying safe.
My secondary goal is to not get hit.
As I realised, it's faster to reach my objective by driving a bit slower, and avoiding damage(and pitstops), than pushing as hard as possible, and taking damage more often.

Sadly not many have to common sense to realise this, and drive on his/her own limit. Because in that case removing this feature would been unnecessary.
Since, if someone joins to speed around, this change wont going to affect him/her.

With this change, the only reason left are police chases.
Which isn't that good on casual level. I mean, it's not that easy as jumping in, to drive a few hundred Km's.

I hope you guys will be able to come up with something to fill up the created hole. I was just thinning about to drive around for a few hours,
but after this.. I'm not sure..

[Tommer]

As I said, if we based the bonuses on time as opposed to distance

EG. On a track where the speedlimit is 120kph. The first bonus USED to be at 10km, 30 Euros. At the speedlimit, 10km would take 5 Minutes.

Thus.

Ex Distance bonus = New Time Bonus
10km Bonus = 5 Minute Bonus
25km Bonus = 12 Min 30 Sec Bonus
50Km Bonus = 25 Min Bonus
75Km Bonus = 37min 30 Sec Bonus
100Km Bonus = 50 Min Bonus

The timer would only ever count when the user's car is moving, so people cannot go idle to farm money.

With this system it neither encourages or punishes speeders, as long as you are driving, and rewards long periods of safe driving as opposed to fast and short ones. This also means that whilst people are not aiming for the speedlimit, they are more happy to slow down from time to time without fear of losing out on money.

The whole point of what i'm suggesting is, people have the choice to speed, it's neither encouraged or discouraged. Instead safe driving is awarded. Perhaps a "no crash bonus" ?

I feel that my suggestion is being overlooked a little here.

[McGherkin]

So what's to stop someone just rolling around at 20mph, not going fast enough to hit someone, or be hit, and earning money as fast as someone doing 120mph?

[Tommer]

(2012-02-19 15:58)McGherkin Wrote:  So what's to stop someone just rolling around at 20mph, not going fast enough to hit someone, or be hit, and earning money as fast as someone doing 120mph?

Nothing, that's exactly the point. People rolling around at 20mph are not causing trouble. They're driving, they don't need to be going fast.

[MoliskScout]

Either with simply giving money.. or by giving alternative currency.
I just going to refer it as BP(BonusPoints) from now on.

In every minute one sticking to the speed limit wins a set amount of BP.
Whoever is closer gets more.

Plus:
If there are enough participants.
When one manages to win it multiple times in a row, one will get:
BaseBP*(1+(RowCount * 0.1))
Meaning: after every 'win' in a row one get 10% higher BP
Not being the best should halve the RowCount if it's higher than 1, and set it to 0 if its 1.

As alternate currency:
Either on disconnecting, or on request, it's gets exchanged to Money
Optionally there could been extra features only available for BP.

[Josh]

Threads merged.

We only need one thread regarding this, otherwise it will just become confusing.

[[TC]►BP◄]

Tommer, people going round at 20mph will just cause mayhem and will look ridiculous lol.

[Nammi]

people can still choose how fast they want to drive. and i highly doubt, that most of the player will creep around at slow speeds.

[Tommer]

(2012-02-19 16:52)Nammi Wrote:  people can still choose how fast they want to drive. and i highly doubt, that most of the player will creep around at slow speeds.

This.

[Nitros]

(2012-02-19 15:19)MariusMM Wrote:  

Long quote (Click to View)

I did a simple test based on track length/speed limit's and time.

Also used this site to calculate how long time x km would take with x speed etc...
http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bi..._calc.html

I chose a route that was 7,8km long. If I follow the speed limit's 100% all the time, each lap would take me 225 seconds / 3:45 mins.
That equals 124.8 km/h average speed.

Old system
Doing one 1000km run with an average speed of 124 km/h would then take 8 hours and 20 mins, equal to 30000 seconds, which is 6000 payouts, 12,000€ (if you do it in an FZ5 that is max +2)
Plus the bonuses, 38, 190€, that would give a total income of = 50, 190€.

New system
Doing the same route with the new system, doing 50km first with +2,
taking 24min and 11secs, which is 1441 seconds, equal to 288 payouts, would give 576€.
Then, doing 950km with +3, would take 7hours, 39mins and 40 seconds, which is 27580 seconds, equal to 5516 payouts, would give 16, 548€.

That will give 576€ + 16, 548€ = 17, 124€.

Autobahn example:
Old system
160km/h for 1000km would take 6hours and 15mins, which is 22500 seconds, equal to 4500 payouts. 9,000€.
That would give a total of 9,000€ + (bonus) 38, 190€ = 47,190€.
New system
160km/h for 50km would take 18mins and 45secs, which is 1125 seconds, and 225 payouts, 450€ income.
160km/h for 950km would take 5hours, 56mins and 15secs, which is 21375 seconds, and 4275 payouts, 12, 825€ income.
450€ + 12, 825€ = 13, 275€.

So unless I have failed miserably on the calculations, you get magnificent less money now. The difference will increase the longer km run you do. So doing tests for 200km run doesn't give a very accurate result I think.

That being said,
I agree with this:

Boypower Wrote:for me it isn't really about the money, it's the achievement of driving hours on end, getting those big bonuses like 300km (high for me, but I end up disconnecting or something out of boredom ), others 1000km occasionally. I just thought it was quite a rewarding system in that sense. It's quite disappointing that it's now gone. But we'll see how it goes, I'm open for change most of the time.

The math seems reasonable for this after a quick glance - maybe even optimistic, because we all know you never stay at exactly the limit for the whole time. But what I would disagree with is the fact you used 1000km as the reference.
You also used an fz5 in the example, which would skew the gap, as the bonus is comparably higher than the earnings.
Yes it is the most glamorous, but for day to day play, the average user would be worried about the range 100-250km, in a lower class car - if their aim is to gain money, as is the premise of this argument (about the money).

That's why I did my sum with a TBO at 150km or something.

However, I see the point that it was a goal and an achievement etc. And that shouldn't be forgotten.

My premise is though, it should be more profitable to drive at the limit, than speeding. There may be a way to tweak the numbers so both systems can work together - however, you still gain much more money driving at the limit, than speeding for bonuses.
Once I have finished graphing a few things, I will let you know what I find.

EDIT: Also will be factoring game-time as the constant, against variable change in money. It is a more fair comparison.

[NVK]

I liked the way it was, and sure it has some up and downs as with everything, but not that critical. And as someone mentioned there is somewhat a special feeling being rewarded for making such high KM's without getting crashed.

But i'm open for changes, but the change as it is atm i don't find any better. But as Nitros said a balance would be nice, after all we should encourage cruising, not racing. But from Marius calculations i don't see any reason to play anymore if it's not being changed. I barly play here anymore, and when i do, i atleast wanna be able to earn some cash for a new car at some point.

[Nitros]

My calculations are not yet done, but it is a lot let drastic at the lower end of the scale, ~ 2,000 euros difference after 2 hours of play (assuming the average speed Marius stated, on a TBO car)

The bonus system was very logarithmic, whereas the newer system is linear after the 50km. I'm playing around with some numbers as we speak. Its interesting, we may get a better balance of income by increasing the extra + you get after 50km, by another 1 or maybe even 2.

In the mean time, any alternate ideas, like Tommer's one are really helpful.

[MariusMM]

.....

[Nitros]

Well here's the current graph I'm playing around with. Shows it a bit easier.

   

[[TC]»Pete«]

The red line displays the currently implemented earning system.
The blue line is the old system.

[Malibu]

So basicly you stop encouraging long distance cruising. Which tbh was a big part of the gameplay, trying not to lose your km's.

[FR4NOx]

What about keeping some form of bonus, but have it be variable like a speedtrap fine; the more km you drive at or close to the speedlimit, the larger the bonus you get.

Edit: Just realized this is rather similar to Tommer's suggestion, but my suggestion focuses on the driven km and the time spent at the limit adjusting the size of the bonus, not on time alone.

[Nitros]

That's interesting keyword.

@Malibu, why's not suggest a solution, rather than just stasting what has been said by others?
You don't need to tell me that the current system isn't perfect - in the same way the old one wasn't perfect for different reasons, but we have been at least trying to work something out.