Trackday layout suggestion

[[TC]►BP◄]

Felipe, I would suggest avoiding provocative language such as "admins are deliberately overlooking", "shallow excuse", "amazing how admins are completely ignoring", etc. It is divisive language and has no place in healthy debate. Do you think people are more, or less, likely to listen to you if you come across this way?

Not that many people have such strong opinions about this issue. It seems to be a small handful of users posting very strong opinions while the rest of the community generally like BL TD (see player numbers) or are indifferent. Also, the poll is hardly conclusive, and IMO various [TC] members have explained our current position well.

Thanks

[Felipe Jardim]

Just an opinion BP, i don't mean to be divisive or provocative, it's simply how i feel. Most people here know me to a degree and im not usually one to pick a fight but i will speak what's on my mind. I'm not claiming to be right or wrong in the matter, but you say the poll isn't conclusive because of numbers of players online. The numbers of online players are much alike any other week with any other map because this is a niche game with a regular community that will play regardless of what map is on rotation.

The users who are posting their opinions on the matter are obviously the ones that care enough to make any comments or suggestions in the matter, most players complaining about the situation never engage in the forum, mainly because they don't even see it as a resource.
Ash even said it himself, if we have a normal layout people will flock to it...if that's not enough of an indication then i stand by what i said as admins are just overlooking/ignoring very blatant facts. Again, not trying to be divisive or provocative but the polls is what forms my opinions.

I wish more people who complain about this situation in game would speak up but as one player said last night "my opinion is irrelevant so i won't bother commenting"

for the record, this is all coming from a person who does at least 100km on track every day, so it's not like im against it, but we all need a break from it, or at least introduce things to make it more attractive to everyone involved since the goal is to please everyone

[fWANKy]

(2022-12-14 02:15)BP Wrote:  Felipe, I would suggest avoiding provocative language such as "admins are deliberately overlooking", "shallow excuse", "amazing how admins are completely ignoring", etc. It is divisive language and has no place in healthy debate. Do you think people are more, or less, likely to listen to you if you come across this way?

Not that many people have such strong opinions about this issue. It seems to be a small handful of users posting very strong opinions while the rest of the community generally like BL TD (see player numbers) or are indifferent. Also, the poll is hardly conclusive, and IMO various [TC] members have explained our current position well.

Thanks

small handfull? did you even bother going through all of the threads tris posted? all of them are on the same topic as this. all of them have more than handul of replies.

have a proper look at each.

also there is alot of new players on server that might like this idea but that are not aware that the forums exist or as jardmin said just dont care about them and people who are forum lurkers, people who look at threads like this, but dont comment on them. we be preaching for the community.

[[TC]►Dizzle◄]

After this 7 day period, you wont see blackwood trackday again until the end of March, 2023. Its not practical to remove it or divide the servers over a small handful of people for a track you see every 3-4 months.

[sezski]

note: I'm not reading through two and a half pages of bickering and paragraphs to read what has already been written - however I have skimmed through...

My two pennies' worth;
leave it as is. Nobody is missing out on anything, the server population stays high, and there is still room for spillover on server two.
We all have tracks/layouts we prefer and don't necessarily like, but I don't see any point in splitting up the population based on layout preference on the same map.
It's true that it adds to the track rotation schedule and I think this is very much a positive thing.

In my opinion, if it really bothers you that much then don't log on for the week, because 7 days later there is a new track loaded.

Dizzle wrote a very valid point - "Its not practical to remove it or divide the servers over a small handful of people for a track you see every 3-4 months."

[fWANKy]

(2022-12-14 15:02)Dizzle Wrote:  After this 7 day period, you wont see blackwood trackday again until the end of March, 2023. Its not practical to remove it or divide the servers over a small handful of people for a track you see every 3-4 months.

thats not the point, the point is when the trackdays are on to give people freedom of having to pick what they want to drve on with mixed servers.

just makes sense, maybe trial it for next trackday on westhill?

if people like it and want go keep it then thats proof enough people want freedom, if not then i guess we can drop the whole thing.

---

(2022-12-14 18:44)sezski Wrote:  In my opinion, if it really bothers you that much then don't log on for the week, because 7 days later there is a new track loaded.

Last seen LFS 13 days ago
dont worry i wont be on till friday. just would of been nice to use my new wheel on the normal blackwood track

[KiiT1337]

(2022-12-13 20:26)Ras Wrote:  A lot of people clearly enjoy everything BL TD has to offer. Would be a shame to take it away because a smaller portion of the player base dislikes it (your favourite track will come too in the track rotation!). No doubt every track has a similar amount of people, who dislikes it.



fwanky this is on a random tuesday. Not even a weekend! Full server and everything!

   

Yes, a lot of people enjoying trackday, u got only one day out of context to claim that people are really "enjoying" a trackday, which is not truth.

(2022-12-14 15:02)Dizzle Wrote:  After this 7 day period, you wont see blackwood trackday again until the end of March, 2023. Its not practical to remove it or divide the servers over a small handful of people for a track you see every 3-4 months.

Nice, so y'all gonna put all that mess that is happening right now under the carpet and carry on, like nothing happened? Then comeback with constantly using trackday layouts once again?

Good way to Handle things and put Community's voice on mute.

[[TC]►Dizzle◄]

Quote:Nice, so y'all gonna put all that mess that is happening right now under the carpet and carry on, like nothing happened? Then comeback with constantly using trackday layouts once again?

Good way to Handle things and put Community's voice on mute.

If we removed every track that people have complained about in the past, there would be none left. I can't wait to see what comes out if we introduce Rockingham to the rotation.

19 people have voted for this in this poll, out of a current 823 active players (as of December 12th 2022).

[[TC]►Ras◄]

(2022-12-14 21:16)KiiT1337 Wrote:  

(2022-12-13 20:26)Ras Wrote:  A lot of people clearly enjoy everything BL TD has to offer. Would be a shame to take it away because a smaller portion of the player base dislikes it (your favourite track will come too in the track rotation!). No doubt every track has a similar amount of people, who dislikes it.



fwanky this is on a random tuesday. Not even a weekend! Full server and everything!

Yes, a lot of people enjoying trackday, u got only one day out of context to claim that people are really "enjoying" a trackday, which is not truth.

And you just took one day "out of context" to claim the opposite. So, there's that!

[RevLeon]

(2022-12-13 20:26)Ras Wrote:  A lot of people clearly enjoy everything BL TD has to offer. Would be a shame to take it away because a smaller portion of the player base dislikes it (your favourite track will come too in the track rotation!). No doubt every track has a similar amount of people, who dislikes it.



fwanky this is on a random tuesday. Not even a weekend! Full server and everything!

Tolerating and enjoying something are two different things and by the looks of the picture and the general voice of the comunity most people tolerate the track but don't enjoy it and could not care for the track day at all. A small portion of the people maybe 10% (if you been on the server since the track started you clearly know) enjoy the track day and drive on the track, most people don't even have a race license to drive on the track anyway. Claiming that most people enjoy this track is not the right call in my opinion, why not give this small number of people that you're talking about what they want on server 2 and leave track day on server 1 for the other small number of people that enjoy it and the rest of the majority can decide where they want to go? At the moment it seems like the small majority of people that like the track day are being favoured over the people who don't for no reason other than just because, please tell me if I am wrong.

[fWANKy]

(2022-12-14 21:25)Dizzle Wrote:  

Quote:Nice, so y'all gonna put all that mess that is happening right now under the carpet and carry on, like nothing happened? Then comeback with constantly using trackday layouts once again?

Good way to Handle things and put Community's voice on mute.

If we removed every track that people have complained about in the past, there would be none left. I can't wait to see what comes out if we introduce Rockingham to the rotation.

19 people have voted for this in this poll, out of a current 823 active players (as of December 12th 2022).

stop using that excuse, its getting old now. its not even removing anything from any where, TRACK DAY ON SERVER 1 AND NORMAL LAYOUT ON SERVER 2. we are not asking to remove anything, just to allow more freedom for the community who over the years have been suggesting this aswell.

also go read through ghutras threads in his post to see how many more people have suggested this before and supported in the past.

---

(2022-12-14 21:25)Dizzle Wrote:  

Quote:Nice, so y'all gonna put all that mess that is happening right now under the carpet and carry on, like nothing happened? Then comeback with constantly using trackday layouts once again?

Good way to Handle things and put Community's voice on mute.

If we removed every track that people have complained about in the past, there would be none left. I can't wait to see what comes out if we introduce Rockingham to the rotation.

19 people have voted for this in this poll, out of a current 823 active players (as of December 12th 2022).

also as i said before theres no chance theres 800 "active" players. never more than 50 people on both servers at once so clearly people join, get bored and leave.

give them our idea and both servers will be full.

[[TC]►Dizzle◄]

(2022-12-14 22:34)fWANKy Wrote:  

(2022-12-14 21:25)Dizzle Wrote:  

Quote:Nice, so y'all gonna put all that mess that is happening right now under the carpet and carry on, like nothing happened? Then comeback with constantly using trackday layouts once again?

Good way to Handle things and put Community's voice on mute.

If we removed every track that people have complained about in the past, there would be none left. I can't wait to see what comes out if we introduce Rockingham to the rotation.

19 people have voted for this in this poll, out of a current 823 active players (as of December 12th 2022).

stop using that excuse, its getting old now. its not even removing anything from any where, TRACK DAY ON SERVER 1 AND NORMAL LAYOUT ON SERVER 2. we are not asking to remove anything, just to allow more freedom for the community who over the years have been suggesting this aswell.

also go read through ghutras threads in his post to see how many more people have suggested this before and supported in the past.

No excuses here. Only facts with solid statistics.

You've already stated the only reason you started this thread is because you are mad you can't use your new wheel on the track you want. It'll be changed in 2 more days and you wont have to see it again for months.

If it were up to me completely Id delete every track on the rotation and lock Montana on forever. I may be able to even persuade BP to help make that happen.... Hmm.

---

(2022-12-14 22:34)fWANKy Wrote:  also as i said before theres no chance theres 800 "active" players.

This is absolutely solid statistic from our servers. Not everyone plays at the same exact time... I dont know why Im having to explain this.


The same 30 players at 10 AM usually isn't the same 30 players at 3 PM

[fWANKy]

"You've already stated the only reason you started this thread is because you are mad you can't use your new wheel on the track you want. It'll be changed in 2 more days and you wont have to see it again for months."


yes true, but this wouldnt be the case for me had there been a normal layout in server 2, i woould be of been there enjoying it. sadly it isnt just me doing this, alot of my team and alot of (not all) my freinds and regulars that i know are also skipping the trackday too because its dull and boring. this idea as stated before appeals to both player bases who want trackday and dont want trackday and will increase the player bases more from these people skipping it.

just add it to the next TD map and try it artleast

[[TC]►Petsu◄]

There's a lot of people who also dislike sydney, should it be changed too to have montana on another server? From what ive seen this past week that BL TD is actually super popular, theres people playing even during nights when usually its only few people. I don't enjoy trackdays that much neither but it doesn't mean i can't try to take the best out of them which means for me biking and hotlapping, i know i can continue copping etc. next week

[KiiT1337]

(2022-12-15 02:12)Petsu Wrote:  There's a lot of people who also dislike sydney, should it be changed too to have montana on another server? From what ive seen this past week that BL TD is actually super popular, theres people playing even during nights when usually its only few people. I don't enjoy trackdays that much neither but it doesn't mean i can't try to take the best out of them which means for me biking and hotlapping, i know i can continue copping etc. next week

Our unique and only complaint is about being forced to drive on a tight industrial area at both servers, its no big deal to set server 2 for normal Layout, but only on tracks that has trackday option, or maybe variants like WE, that we have the retro, trackday and the whole open track.

Is it too hard to do?

(2022-12-14 21:46)RevLeon Wrote:  

(2022-12-13 20:26)Ras Wrote:  A lot of people clearly enjoy everything BL TD has to offer. Would be a shame to take it away because a smaller portion of the player base dislikes it (your favourite track will come too in the track rotation!). No doubt every track has a similar amount of people, who dislikes it.



fwanky this is on a random tuesday. Not even a weekend! Full server and everything!

Tolerating and enjoying something are two different things and by the looks of the picture and the general voice of the comunity most people tolerate the track but don't enjoy it and could not care for the track day at all. A small portion of the people maybe 10% (if you been on the server since the track started you clearly know) enjoy the track day and drive on the track, most people don't even have a race license to drive on the track anyway. Claiming that most people enjoy this track is not the right call in my opinion, why not give this small number of people that you're talking about what they want on server 2 and leave track day on server 1 for the other small number of people that enjoy it and the rest of the majority can decide where they want to go? At the moment it seems like the small majority of people that like the track day are being favoured over the people who don't for no reason other than just because, please tell me if I am wrong.

(https://prnt.sc/dOd9XdNi5dXM)

I see you're wrong, cause you are telling me we have the option to choose something, but not a real option, only when not full server 1, and we take the same city and same boring trackday stuff at an empty lobby.
Which one few lads that use trackday layout claimed that busy chat was a distraction.(which wont be an issue if we spread the servers and change layout at sv2, so sv1 not gonna be that much clogged as it is now)


And last thing, we dont want to delete anything, we asking for changes to be made, y'all claiming that only a small part of us really making a move an the one's who do really enjoy trackday, but those who are speaking it up here are the only one's who really do any kind of effort, cause as far as i can see 850~players at all, and only 50~ come to the forum to make things happen, ask for something and really debate about anything, we aint excluding nobody, just want changes to be made.

[Tris]

I don't get how a suggestion to simply give more players a way to enjoy the server is being treated like some kind of absurd proposition. We're not asking for a track to be removed from the rotation, we're simply asking to give more of the community a way to actually enjoy the server during the time it's on the server instead of alienating them.

Using examples like "i dont like kyoto but.." or "people don't like sydney but.." is silly, those are all full tracks that just happen to be boring to some people simply because of the way the devs designed the track, which is outside of TC's control. Here we're talking about a track that was modified in a way that eliminates a significant portion of it, leaving behind an incredibly restrictive area. I get that some people still enjoy this, and that's fine, even I in theory think trackdays as a whole make sense given the design of westhill and blackwood. But ignoring constant complaints and insisting on forcing everyone on to this limited version of the track makes no sense when you have a second server just sitting there barely used.

"but there's x amount of people on the server, clearly people like it" It's coming up to christmas, LFS is experiencing a minor revival thanks to mods and an influx of attention on youtube, [TC] is the only populated server on LFS that offers this kind of cruise experience. As RevLeon said, tolerating and enjoying something are not the same.

"but there's few votes in the pole, it doesn't reflect the whole community" As I already pointed out this same topic has come up numerous times in the past, every time the consensus has been the same. What more do you want exactly? It's clear only a fraction of people who play on the server actively use the forums, the only way you're gonna get a larger sample than this is if the pole is actively pushed to the larger playerbase in an official capacity by TC.

"but it will diminish the experience for people who enjoy the TD layout if the playerbase is split between two servers" If people truly enjoy TD as much as is claimed then there should be no problem keeping a full server 1 while it's on the rotation. Even if this doesn't end up happening would it really diminish the experience that much? It's already a tiny area, you don't need a full server to be able to get the feeling of it being populated. If anything you're giving the two servers a chance to reach a higher combined population, as different people would have an incentive to join either server based on something other than just player count.

[◄Chuck►]

I think all points have been made, all bullets have been fired.

We have good reasons to keep the rotation as it is as it is the fairest option for everyone as everyone "punished" or "rewarded" in the same way, depending from what side you look at it.

However, I've picked up some good ideas to make more use of the race track, e.g. by mini race events. I had already worked on that years ago but didn't finish it. Maybe its a good point to pick it up again.

We also still have BL Retro in our repertoire, which I like a lot. Maybe we should include that in the rotation as well. Even Rockingham got mentioned. A track that many demonised, including myself, because the experiences were quite negative. However, times change, people change. Maybe we should give it another try. And X-Mas is a good time for miracles.

[SO•Huski]

(2022-12-16 06:25)Chuck Wrote:  I think all points have been made, all bullets have been fired.

We have good reasons to keep the rotation as it is as it is the fairest option for everyone as everyone "punished" or "rewarded" in the same way, depending from what side you look at it.

However, I've picked up some good ideas to make more use of the race track, e.g. by mini race events. I had already worked on that years ago but didn't finish it. Maybe its a good point to pick it up again.

We also still have BL Retro in our repertoire, which I like a lot. Maybe we should include that in the rotation as well. Even Rockingham got mentioned. A track that many demonised, including myself, because the experiences were quite negative. However, times change, people change. Maybe we should give it another try. And X-Mas is a good time for miracles.

I'd be in for the idea of a Blackwood Retro on the assumption (like Westhill) there's ways onto the industrial estate and/or container yard for fun messing about due to the sheer track size alone, sometimes a fun time is to just mess about and have a laugh with friends.

Rockingham I think should be considered too, while I didn't get to try it much myself I'd like to see it provisionally bought back just to give more into the arsenal of rotations and such. But maybe less common on the rotation if the result is mixed / minorly more negative

I think trackday could be expanded into mini-races and mini-events, would be interesting to see who has what idea and what can be bought together to expand trackday a little bit more, either races or even HL challenges too like "Best time in X car wins Y" sort of thing, would be a good idea, nice change of pace.

[fWANKy]

bump.

now we got westhill trackday lets atleast try to have the normal layout on server 2 for all them trackday haters and everyone in this thread

[February]

None trackday on server 2 trackday on server 1 it doesn't sound like a bad idea to be honeste.