Police Rules

[Stunna]

That's still how it is, AFAIK.

[Josh]

I don't see what is wrong with PIT'ing into barriers or deflecting cops away from your car into objects. As long as the initial application of force isn't excessive, I don't see why the end result needs to be 'soft' too (so long it only affects the suspects car).

[Pipa]

The barriers got a physics update some time ago, which means nowadays you only fly into the air if you hit the narrow end with your car.

This is a bug and chucks point was that you shouldn't use bugs to disable the suspects car.

I did try to pay very close attention to it today and i do feel that this could make copping a lot harder.
There have been a few close calls where the suspect braked or steered away from me which altered the direction in which his car would spin off. Or one with lag where the suspect got pitted before i wanted it too (before the barriers).

None of them hit the narrow bit of the barrier, but two were quite close.

[Tommer]

It's not really feasible to say cop's can't PIT suspects into barriers. There will be far too many cases of 'the suspect who cried wolf' because a PIT lead them into a barrier. Experience should dictate that PIT's are simply not that predictable in outcome.

On top of that it's pretty much standard practice as wearing the suspects car down through PIT's (to wear tyres/damage suspension) alot of the time is the only way you can get them into a state where they can be catched (Think about that last chase you had with that nice heavy rb4 with the worlds most powerful reverse gear)

When we are driving around at 80-150mph this is no ballerina act, people will crash, damage will happen, accidental or otherwise. Chases are going to have to stop one day or another we can't just pit our suspect into nothing and watch them drive off over and over again.

[[TC]»Pete«]

I agree with both BP's and Chuck's side of the situation, however I think that this problem will sort itself out over time when the devs finally get around to completely fixing the buggy barriers.

[McGherkin]

(2012-06-02 09:48)Chuck Wrote:  General rules:
"1.2. Do not crash or ram other cars deliberately."

Causing someone to crash is basically the same as directly crashing into somebody.
And I don't see a reason why a chase would change anything to that. The "force-rule" does indeed allow a limited amount of force, but it does not generally release them from keeping other rules.

This. PITing someone into the barriers is an underhand move anyway. How is someone supposed to recover from that?

(2012-06-03 00:57)Lampshade Wrote:  I think that this problem will sort itself out over time when the devs finally get around to completely fixing the buggy barriers.

Are you insane? Take a quick look at the LFS development history!

[Tommer]

(2012-06-03 01:27)McGherkin Wrote:  This. PITing someone into the barriers is an underhand move anyway. How is someone supposed to recover from that?

/

They don't. That's the whole point of the PIT, to immobilize the suspects vehicle. Police's job is to bring the suspect to a stop not play with them but keep them going.

[McGherkin]

I'm forgetting that this server is 100% roleplay and 0% having fun chasing each other.

[Tommer]

That's a bit of an unfair statement. Just because a cop can potentially pit you into a barrier and damage your car doesn't suddenly make it not fun, when you fail to stop you put your money and your car at stake. Part of the fun is evading the cop's PIT's and attempting to PIT back. If we just followed eachother and never did anything all day it would be no fun.

This is more of a case of 'suspect claims it's unfair because he was caught easily' than a it's actually unfair thing now. There are equal rights in what a suspect can do to a cop and what a cop can do to a suspect, it's a chase full of risks and excitement. Heavily controlled procedures that rarely work and suspects complaining and reporting every time they get a boo-boo is just going to cause frustration amongst admins and heavy tension between users.

[McGherkin]

You're assuming that the suspect is in a position to PIT the cop 50% of the time in order for it to be fair. Which is not the case. Suspects rarely, if ever, get to PIT a cop, and certainly not at any kind of speed where the cop will be immobilised. So really 'suspects can do it too' is a moot point.

However, when a Cop pits a suspect into a barrier:
1. The suspect has no time to avoid or recover, due to the fact that the cop will perform the manoeuvre right before he passes the barrier.
2. The suspect will be damaged so much he will be effectively immobile
3. The suspect may go OOB, causing autobust.

These three characteristics seperate a barrier PIT from a normal one, and all three make it unfair to deliberately use this manoeuvre.

There was once a time when you used a PIT manoeuvre to face the suspect towards a wall, and block off the other end of their car with yours, and if a suspect went into a barrier it'd be through their own lack of driving ability.

[Tommer]

(2012-06-03 02:24)McGherkin Wrote:  You're assuming that the suspect is in a position to PIT the cop 50% of the time in order for it to be fair. Which is not the case. Suspects rarely, if ever, get to PIT a cop, and certainly not at any kind of speed where the cop will be immobilised. So really 'suspects can do it too' is a moot point.

You calling that a moot point is a moot point. It's down to the suspects ability. Once again this is a case of "can you drive or can you not". I can assure you approximately 70-90% of all PIT maneuvers in a chase where I am the suspect are performed by me. It's very easy to turn the tables around on a cop if you actually try.

The suspect has loads of time to recover. Wether they do or not depends on the cop's ability, the suspects ability, and who's side luck is flying on. Saying that the cop has the upper hand is not true at all. Try chasing Rifo.

Possible damage to your car/possibility of going OOB are the risks you run when you fail to stop. You are actively running and acknowledging the risk and it is unreasonable to think you won't receive any damage in a high speed pursuit.

In much the same way, the cop risks damage to his car/being knocked OOB. EG. A brake checking suspect sending a cop spinning into a barrier. Or even a miscalculated calculated nudge can easily backfire on you and send you into objects.

Yes it's true it may appear that the cop's have the upper hand based on a win-lose ratio but look at the people that are policing on our servers, some have been playing since 2006.

The suspect does not become completely immobile if they hit the barrier, it largely depends on how they hit the barrier. And 90% of suspects wouldn't even let a cop get to the stage where they could PIT them into the barrier in the first place *ahem* block the gap between you and the barrier by moving over a little bit?

If the suspect doesn't protect themselves and makes themself a sitting duck then the cop will treat them like a sitting duck no?

[mogey5101]

(2012-06-03 03:24)Tommer Wrote:  

(2012-06-03 02:24)McGherkin Wrote:  You're assuming that the suspect is in a position to PIT the cop 50% of the time in order for it to be fair. Which is not the case. Suspects rarely, if ever, get to PIT a cop, and certainly not at any kind of speed where the cop will be immobilised. So really 'suspects can do it too' is a moot point.

You calling that a moot point is a moot point. It's down to the suspects ability. Once again this is a case of "can you drive or can you not". I can assure you approximately 70-90% of all PIT maneuvers in a chase where I am the suspect are performed by me. It's very easy to turn the tables around on a cop if you actually try.

The suspect has loads of time to recover. Wether they do or not depends on the cop's ability, the suspects ability, and who's side luck is flying on. Saying that the cop has the upper hand is not true at all. Try chasing Rifo.

Possible damage to your car/possibility of going OOB are the risks you run when you fail to stop. You are actively running and acknowledging the risk and it is unreasonable to think you won't receive any damage in a high speed pursuit.

In much the same way, the cop risks damage to his car/being knocked OOB. EG. A brake checking suspect sending a cop spinning into a barrier. Or even a miscalculated calculated nudge can easily backfire on you and send you into objects.

Yes it's true it may appear that the cop's have the upper hand based on a win-lose ratio but look at the people that are policing on our servers, some have been playing since 2006.

The suspect does not become completely immobile if they hit the barrier, it largely depends on how they hit the barrier. And 90% of suspects wouldn't even let a cop get to the stage where they could PIT them into the barrier in the first place *ahem* block the gap between you and the barrier by moving over a little bit?

If the suspect doesn't protect themselves and makes themself a sitting duck then the cop will treat them like a sitting duck no?

Exactly this, Running and driving in circles isn't always the answer. It takes trickery, and tactics to end a chase quickly as the suspect.

[Pipa]

(2012-06-03 02:24)McGherkin Wrote:  So really 'suspects can do it too' is a moot point.

Not at all, especially pits can be countered really easily and this does happen really often. You see the cop getting next to your back, brake heavily and when they shoot past hit their rear.

And there are other numerous ways to avoid a pit.

The difference now is that when the suspect spins he can try again to get away, but the cop only has one chance to keep in the 500dst radius.