[Implemented] (inSim) Changes to [MED] - Add to the RP/Server experience

[KaraK [T]]

From what I understand is that what made Kiz make this thread, was the pages long debate about whether or not medics should use sirens or not and the general use of the role.

I would love to have a MED system, but I'm afraid that this won't ever come. Instead of asking for an insim, I'm sure most of us would be fine with the old 'rules'.
Medics are able to be chased, they don't have any priority, though they may use sirens.

I'm not a fan of the visual sirens. There are more than enough people disrespecting siren/caution/hazard, with the implementation of another siren, or with others using the normal visual siren, I'm afraid this number would only increase. The HwA and VCU tag are TC only, and they have the role of a cop as well. HwA can't speed to an accident with visual sirens on, neither can the VCU.

[[TC]►Bez◄]

(2012-08-30 01:31)Kiz Wrote:  [*] A MED should be given the same street rights as a COP - MEDs should be allowed to pass traffic and should gain priority on the road when in a state of Emergency. This state of emergency is only accessible when responding to a call, they should be able to respond to a 'call' when a 'major crash' is reported, at which time they are able to use Siren[+/-] and legally use strobes, once at the scene, their rights to use Siren[+/-] are revoked until another major incident is reported.

At the moment they are allowed to use the visual and sirens, but not visual sirens. I understand where you are coming from Karak. But people can't keep going around going "What if" and thinking the worst of the TC community. If they break rules they permanently loose their rights, or you can do a 3 strike you're out kinda thing then the user is permanently revoked from using MED.

Also i think if they added a green siren visual instead of a red one that the police currently use that would help separate cops from medics.

Oh i always thought VCU and HwA were allowed to use visual siren for blue light runs and stuff... Unless they changed their mind about that again..
+
HwA have no set rules so at the moment they can pretty much do anything they like. Yes they are classed as COP's but they don't do the job of a cop, they just chase and hang back.

[[TC]►Luke™◄]

I agree completely with the idea of a medic siren, it may not give them complete right of way, but iw ould definately make them more visible to other road-users. I think it should be a blue and green siren, because that's what most european countries around the world use for doctor/medic cars.

Here's two in real life:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5wxtLKq7...re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXFU33K0uOU

[Kiz]

(2012-08-31 14:36)Nitros Wrote:  

(2012-08-30 01:31)Kiz Wrote:  [*] To counter any abuse of this system, there should be a limit of the number of MEDs allowed on the server in relation to how populated the server is at that time, I'd say 3 MEDs maximum on a fully populated server.

[*] To further counter any abuse, if a members COP rights are revoked so are their MED rights.

This would not counter abuse, only reduce the number of people who can abuse it at any one time to 3, and people who have not been caught being a bad cop I the past.

The scope for abuse is my main concern with any MED idea in the past, and I haven't read a suggestion which guarantees little possibility for abuse yet. If you can think of a way without too much modification to insim, then you will have a winner.

I do understand where you are coming from Nitros, but you also surely understand that a limit can also act to help counter abuse, it means that MEDs are easier to monitor at first and means that admins can quickly deal with the rule breakers. It was also meant so that every car on the road doesn't drive as a MED, otherwise things would become boring very quickly.

The main objective of this thread was to raise the possibility of a MED having a real role within the server instead of just an RP Role. This would make the whole MED system a lot easier to manage, maintain and administrate.

I really strongly disagree with the whole holding point on the implementation of a MED system is because a minority might abuse it - there's an easy way to deal with offenders; Revoke Rights, Kick & Ban.

My main objective of the thread wasn't to raise concerns about the strobes, because I believe without a real role, they are useless anyway. If given a real role within the server, people may start respecting the MED class and actually start using it properly.

With proper rules, regulations and administration the MED class could be an effective & fun addition to the community & server. I mean, there are a minority that abuse their COP rights, we don't remove the COP class from the game because of that do we? We simply punish the people who abuse.

I also really like the idea of the on-screen sirens being distinctively different from standard policing sirens.

And finally, I also still strongly believe that a removal of either COP or MED rights should mean the removal of both, if you can't be trusted to do one, then you can't be trusted to do the other.

Thanks for the all the feedback. =)

Regards,

Kiz.

[[TC]►Bez◄]

^

All of that was neatly said. +1

[[TC]►Luke™◄]

I agree with what you said Kiz, just apart from the bit where you said if you lose your cop rights, you lose your med rights. I don't think that's comepletly fair, because unfortunately I recently lost my cop rights, and because I loved being a cop so much, being a medic is the only thing that really interests me anymore. If you get rid of someones med and cop rights, they don't have much to keep them going on the tc srver, epecially someone like me who doesn't particularly enjoyed being chased, I enjoyed driving fast with sirens on.

[[TC]►Ras◄]

(2012-09-04 06:10)Lukey747 Wrote:  I agree with what you said Kiz, just apart from the bit where you said if you lose your cop rights, you lose your med rights. I don't think that's comepletly fair, because unfortunately I recently lost my cop rights, and because I loved being a cop so much, being a medic is the only thing that really interests me anymore. If you get rid of someones med and cop rights, they don't have much to keep them going on the tc srver, epecially someone like me who doesn't particularly enjoyed being chased, I enjoyed driving fast with sirens on.

No offense, but its really your own fault if you loose your rights. Loosing one of the rights, causing the other to be lost, could help prevent abuse of both tags as it doesnt only affect the one thats abused.

[Tommer]

Just read through this thread and i'd like to say I support the idea..

.. But only to an extent, there are some issues that need resolving first.

• Many 'major' crashes don't result in the road being blocked, infact the people just continue driving - With this system Med's will be able to drive with lights and sirens to 'crash scenes' where there are no crashed people
• Some minor crashes are actually major in the sense that it ends with a vehicle rolled over blocking the road - these accidents won't be registered by InSim and thus they can't get to the scene fast.
• Meds should have limited siren priveledges. IE, they can speed, but they're not allowed onto the wrong side of the road, sounds fair?
• Some may not see this as an issue but the MED tag may start to be used as a tow tag when tow's are not online since it offers siren permissions getting to crashes and has enhanced benefits such as !hazard which you are suggesting we take away from tow's. Not necessarily a bad thing but pretty much kills the roleplay element med's were meant to bring in the first place
• It was suggested that we limit to 1 !join per accident but what about accidents that block both directions..?
  
  

Food for thought

[[TC]►Luke™◄]

Surely if I lost my cop rights, I would take more care to keep my medic rights?

[James]

Thought id add something here;

Until something becomes implimented that [MED] would be a more unique and in some ways an independant unit, I believe that [TOW] should be getting more attention than it currently is receiving. Also, having it become a more attractive unit to 'RP'.

[[TC]►Ras◄]

(2012-09-04 08:35)Lukey747 Wrote:  Surely if I lost my cop rights, I would take more care to keep my medic rights?

Yes im sure you personally would, but there are noobs out there who have cop rights revoked that might rush to the MED tag just so they can continue what they did as cop.

[Kiz]

(2012-09-04 08:29)Tommer Wrote:  Just read through this thread and i'd like to say I support the idea..

.. But only to an extent, there are some issues that need resolving first.

• Many 'major' crashes don't result in the road being blocked, infact the people just continue driving - With this system Med's will be able to drive with lights and sirens to 'crash scenes' where there are no crashed people
• Some minor crashes are actually major in the sense that it ends with a vehicle rolled over blocking the road - these accidents won't be registered by InSim and thus they can't get to the scene fast.
• Meds should have limited siren priveledges. IE, they can speed, but they're not allowed onto the wrong side of the road, sounds fair?
• Some may not see this as an issue but the MED tag may start to be used as a tow tag when tow's are not online since it offers siren permissions getting to crashes and has enhanced benefits such as !hazard which you are suggesting we take away from tow's. Not necessarily a bad thing but pretty much kills the roleplay element med's were meant to bring in the first place
• It was suggested that we limit to 1 !join per accident but what about accidents that block both directions..?
  
  

Food for thought

I agree with everything there! =) Nice input! =)

(2012-09-04 08:35)Lukey747 Wrote:  Surely if I lost my cop rights, I would take more care to keep my medic rights?

I disagree, I think if you've abused your COP rights, then you should be taking a basic training course in order to have the right to drive any emergency vehicle, if you are not deemed safe as a COP then you shouldn't be deemed safe as a MED. I've been a member since 2009, not once have I had my COP rights revoked. The aim of this is too stop abuse, not give abusers another option.

(2012-09-04 09:08)PeePee Wrote:  Thought id add something here;

Until something becomes implimented that [MED] would be a more unique and in some ways an independant unit, I believe that [TOW] should be getting more attention than it currently is receiving. Also, having it become a more attractive unit to 'RP'.

I'd have to disagree, TOWs already have a big role in the server, and a TOW in real life has around about the same privileges. But maybe start another thread about this? as this is off-topic.

Regards,

Kiz.

[[TC]►Luke™◄]

Kiz, do you actually know why I was revoked? I was catching up to someone who was speeding, but I forgot to put my siren on. Does that sound like severe abuse? I got them revoked trying to help keep TC a noob free, safe place to drive. I deeply regret that I have them revoked, and am truly gutted. But I didn't ram anyone, go wrongside, swear or drive dangerously. I truly do care about this medic issue, and really believe that it should be an official role. I've even spent time writing a detailed medic guide. I know what I did as a cop was wrong, but surely after losing my cop rights, I would take more care in a medic position. A you can see, I am passionate about this issue, and would like to put some sort of specialised medic training program together. Would you like to help me Kiz?
I also understand, Ras, that yes some cops who get revoked might see medic as a backup option. But, as I mentioned I would like to put up some sort of medic training scheme to help make sure that they will take the opportunity seriously. Maybe we should do a sort of special medic training program for cops who have been revoked, to make sure they can be trusted. I would certainly be happy to donate my free time to do that.

(p.s sorry about the rant)

[Mr. NB]

Lukey, dont bother mate, i respect all the time you are putting in writing this, but this has been discussed many times before and if InSim maker does not like it (which he obviously do not), you can write ten pages long text and you will change nothing.

Save yourself some time mate, but as i said, i respect your effort.

[[TC]►Luke™◄]

Thanks Mr NB., at least one person sees that I have worked hard for this, but yes, I do know this is a futile attempt, I just want to see where it goes...

[Kiz]

(2012-09-04 14:34)Mr. NB Wrote:  Lukey, dont bother mate, i respect all the time you are putting in writing this, but this has been discussed many times before and if InSim maker does not like it (which he obviously do not), you can write ten pages long text and you will change nothing.

Save yourself some time mate, but as i said, i respect your effort.

It's actually me that wrote the thread in the first place O.o This is the second time Lukey has been mistaken as the OP.

But either way, surely TC should be more entered around the community, not around the fact that the creator doesn't want something. I understand he may not want it in game, but if that's the case, TC should at-least make it clear that the valid reason for not having an inSim MED system is because Chuck (I assume) doesn't want it in the game instead of dressing it up with all of this abuse non-sense. If I'd known that the reasoning behind this was purely to do with the administrators not wanting it full-stop, I wouldn't have written the thread.

The fact of the matter is, it can be implemented, abuse can be avoided, the Admin(s) just Doesn't/Don't want it.

(2012-09-04 14:12)Lukey747 Wrote:  Kiz, do you actually know why I was revoked? I was catching up to someone who was speeding, but I forgot to put my siren on. Does that sound like severe abuse? I got them revoked trying to help keep TC a noob free, safe place to drive. I deeply regret that I have them revoked, and am truly gutted. But I didn't ram anyone, go wrongside, swear or drive dangerously. I truly do care about this medic issue, and really believe that it should be an official role. I've even spent time writing a detailed medic guide. I know what I did as a cop was wrong, but surely after losing my cop rights, I would take more care in a medic position. A you can see, I am passionate about this issue, and would like to put some sort of specialised medic training program together. Would you like to help me Kiz?
I also understand, Ras, that yes some cops who get revoked might see medic as a backup option. But, as I mentioned I would like to put up some sort of medic training scheme to help make sure that they will take the opportunity seriously. Maybe we should do a sort of special medic training program for cops who have been revoked, to make sure they can be trusted. I would certainly be happy to donate my free time to do that.

(p.s sorry about the rant)

I would help if it could all be formally arranged.

Regards,

Kiz.

[[TC]►Bez◄]

(2012-09-04 08:29)Tommer Wrote:  Just read through this thread and i'd like to say I support the idea..

.. But only to an extent, there are some issues that need resolving first.

• Many 'major' crashes don't result in the road being blocked, infact the people just continue driving - With this system Med's will be able to drive with lights and sirens to 'crash scenes' where there are no crashed people
• Some minor crashes are actually major in the sense that it ends with a vehicle rolled over blocking the road - these accidents won't be registered by InSim and thus they can't get to the scene fast.
  

(2012-08-31 17:52)Bez Wrote:  You could also implant a method where if its not a serious crash and they aren't blocking the road they just use !calltow and for serious crashes where the road needs to be cautioned or needs hazard signs they could use !callemg < this alerts the tow and a MED at the same time.

^

[KaraK [T]]

An official medic training team probably won't ever come, because it's simply not a role which needs training. Cops however do, because (together with robbers) it's the main role on the servers.
You can spend your free time on training people, but unless it's an official (/mandatory) training, I'm afraid not many people will attend.

As to your cop rights, you can simply do training to get them back.

[Mr. NB]

(2012-09-04 15:18)Kiz Wrote:  It's actually me that wrote the thread in the first place O.o This is the second time Lukey has been mistaken as the OP.

But either way, surely TC should be more entered around the community, not around the fact that the creator doesn't want something. I understand he may not want it in game, but if that's the case, TC should at-least make it clear that the valid reason for not having an inSim MED system is because Chuck (I assume) doesn't want it in the game instead of dressing it up with all of this abuse non-sense. If I'd known that the reasoning behind this was purely to do with the administrators not wanting it full-stop, I wouldn't have written the thread.

Ah sorry about that. But anyway, looks like you both are putting some effort into explaining things.

Yeah, it would be nice if more suggestions would be considered by the TC, but unfortunately, it does not work like that here. It is not that people in TC would be ignorant, it is just that there is a certain logic and idea of what TC should be going on there and there is no way for people to change that easily. It obviously is a successful idea, since TC has been most popular server for years, so hands down on that, but i do agree however, that there is a lot of very useful and detailed suggestions out there. There was even more of them on the old forums, but you could count all of them that were acctualy implented, on the fingers of one hand.

If i myself was the one that made the InSim and owned the servers and i saw that community (people, without who this community would not be what it is, let's not forget that) likes one idea a lot, i would certainly think about it, even if i myself, didnt like the idea that much. But i guess that Chuck is not like that and you can not change people. Also, this topic about MED's has been discussed many times before, hell, when i was active, even as a Team Leader In Training in the TC, i myself did not know what a MED can do and what he can not. So there is certainly a lot, that could be done on that area.

[[TC]►Bez◄]

People are too scared of change that's all.. It wouldn't hurt anyone to do trial runs of some ideas to see how they work out for 2 weeks, then if they don't work just remove it from the insim/server. Iv'e seem many great ideas posted and i agree with MR. NB myself.

Yes the servers successful but you still need to keep building onto it.. IMO i get bored really easily just driving around doing nothing.. All we have to do is chases, towing and cruising. I get to about 50km and just end up leaving of boredom.. At least the old km bonus made people stay now its just like.. Meh why the hell should i..