What is [TC] - What it was and what should it be?

[Tommer]

More of an existential discussion spurred on by recent developments and idle chatter in the server, but I think it deserves discussing. This thread is is just somewhere to talk about the overall direction [TC] is going and where everyone in the community would like it to go.

[TC] Servers today are a lot different to what they were a few months ago, the introduction of mods brought a whole new slew of possibilities to [TC] that previously were not possible.

We've seen the introduction of trucks, buses, taxis and various role-play elements.

I've heard [TC] admins say that Roleplay is not what [TC] should be about - [TC] is Cops and Robbers. Is that really true anymore? It's an existential question.

I had a recent encounter as a [COP] with a person who was treating [TC] more like farmville and have no interest in roleplay, just farming money, I was met with hostile contempt for trying to roleplay with them.

At the same time, Chuck develops new Roleplay features every day, and much of the [TC] users use them. We see buses driving everywhere, Trucks, Taxi's, each new roleplaying development appears to be being gobbled up eagerly by people who just can't get enough.

Where do you think [TC] should be going? Should [TC] have more of a roleplay oriented culture or stick to systems only? How should the systems and rules be adapted to meet how [TC] is used today?

I'll post my own thoughts on this as a reply, just so the OP can be the question

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There are some things that have happened recently that make me wonder about the quality of time spent at [TC] and how it could be better.

I've primarily played as a [COP] but also sometimes I like to get myself chased as well.

Some of my own observations

• As a [COP] I often do not speed despite advised it's OK to do so responding to Thefts and Danger on road - Because I lose money
• As a [COP] I've noticed that it can often be very difficult to find somebody speeding, and some chases have prematurely ended early because the suspect was losing too much money speeding - Not very fun
• As a civilian there have been times where I've avoided certain roads that are otherwise empty in a chase because I'll lose too much money
  

I've heard [TC] admins say that [COP]'s should earn the most money, because that is the name of the server and what it's all about. But I find that position frustrating personally, as I can hardly find anybody to chase recently, I've been feeling like the system is too geared in my favor. I've got everything to gain and nothing to lose, whilst the suspect has everything to lose and nothing to gain.

I also tried doing jobs but found myself disappointed that after investing in the big LCT truck, that I could not make a decent income. In fact, the time my truck spent loading/unloading, I would have probably earned my reward from simply driving.

Personal view:[/u]

I feel like if [TC] wants to go in the roleplay direction, roleplay should be rewarding. My gut tells me that what would make it work is to simply do away with earning/losing money from driving, and instead earn money from doing jobs only - The job money would have to be increased hugely to completely replace driving income, and fines for traffic violations would have to be raised as a result too to encourage more people to be a [COP] and enforce the traffic speed. It would mean more action for me as a [COP] and I think increase the realism too.

[[TC]►BP◄]

The mods system is probably the biggest gameplay change this server has seen.

The new jobs are fairly low income (at least deliveries and bus driving). I expect that eventually they won't be so popular. They are still very new systems and people are having some fun with it.

The pure, skilful fast driving cops n' robbers element of the game has definitely been diluted, partially by the mods system. A lot of people are currently driving vehicles which are not really suitable for chases (e.g., truck, motorbike). Also, from a cop's perspective it is no longer always easy to know the performance of your suspect's vehicle. Some of the new cars are extremely fast.

However, it doesn't help that IMO the revamped (by LFS) maps (e.g., Weston Park) are not as good for pure cops n' robbers gameplay - even before the mods update.

Things have definitely moved in a different direction.

[[TC]►Carl◄]

The OP is certainly a good question. It will take some more gameplay for me to decide my opinion fully. It's still early days and i truly believe that the gameplay will balance out and we can iron out any troublesome mods which impact the gameplay over time. Part of me actually misses the old LFS where I could get into competitive chases. I don't feel like it's possible anymore at the moment in time.

I can't relate to your observations that you've made. I find a suspect will use any method to escape, I, personally don't look at my money when running from the police.

[[TC]►Dizzle◄]

Opinion:

I feel like the roots of [TC] died when bus, taxi, and delivery systems were implemented. A pure Cops and Robbers server is no longer in existence. [TC] remained undefeatable with-in LFS because of our basic and fun model. Other servers with jobs, and ridiculous cars (BMW sauber) enabled as a cruise car were never very successful and that is how I view some of the insane mods enabled on the server today. Yes, the systems are new so most are using them but cop presence is at an all time low. Most arent even making efforts to play as cop even with modded vehicles.

I hope that BP is right and the delivery and bus driving become unpopular and we can get back to what was fun.

[SIMOX]

Westhill was never a good map for COPs that's true. It's too big to catch someone speeding, unless you want to afk for 10 minutes straight till someone decides to go that one road. It's super costly to speed as well so noone really does anyway.

For less open and more wallet friendly tracks like Kyoto, catching a speeder is not an issue, provided he's not in an S15 or some other crazy fast car. However, with the introduction of taxi, busing and delivery jobs, more people will be using those vehicles that won't be speeding or breaking road laws, which means COPs will have less job. Before, sometimes it was already hard to find someone speeding. Now? Will be way harder.

The new roleplay jobs also have no meaning. The income is bad and if intention is that popularity will drop, then why even bother adding it?
The roleplay jobs should be connected to other players, like TOW or something. You get a call and you help a fellow player. It's a unique interaction that is fun. I don't care about some invisible AI guy calling taxi. It's not roleplay.

The old Cops and Robbers LFS was better, or was it?
See Cops, i understand, but Robbers? Who are we robbing? Ourselves would be my guess. Sure you can !steal, but good luck finding victim that is not in safezone, not a new player, not surrounded by many cars, not driving and has enough money for you to steal from him.
And if you speed, you just robbing yourself tbh. Go and check my TC world profile you'll see that ive lost more by speeding than i actually gained. So where are the robbers?

Not that it's better now i just think that the economy could be better and would encourage them robbers so cops would go after them and we would have more chases hopefully.
Because cmon, noone want to run from police and see -50, -123, -225 on their income UI. Reason why i was mainly COPing lately. Not that it's more fun, but running from police is just not worth it. If someone wants to prove who is faster then lets go to racing server and drive there.

But eCoNOmy, it's cheap money, just buy from some scammer. Sure there are farmer players who farm TC cash and then sell to other people and then those people sell to those who need it. But if i burn all money and buy all there is, where ya'll gonna get it then? Grind on blackwood rally stage with restricted UF1's i suppose. And thus noone will be speeding and COPs wont have jobs.

[[TC] TAZxx]

Early opinion for me is this;

The mods system adds a lot of variety into what I would call a game/simulator which is towards End of Life (even with this update)... The ins and outs of that are for a different thread/forum.

This system has added some new possibilities, which as you say have been gobbled up by the community... This also means the amount of toxicity within the server has reduced. Is any of this permanently going to change? I highly doubt it.

I've been back on [TC] City Driving for but only a few days, but I am enjoying the gameplay that's there and I do look forward to also going back to my COP routes as well.

The jobs/bus routes on larger maps like this will seem to pay at a low rate compared to more confined maps (such as Blackwood)... So, we should expect some variety... I know for a fact I'll be grinding jobs a bit more to gain money to buy these modded vehicles on the smaller maps.

Let's talk about every game release ever, there is a huge "Let's play this." whenever a new game comes out, but the hype dies down, as will with the mod system, jobs, bus routes, etc.

The way I'm looking at things right now is, less toxicity, more fun and a reason to actually be on the server... Just today for example me and others shared a lot of banter, which even 6 months ago would not have been possible.

There's positives and negatives with everything, you just have to find them... Like, with the job system, you'll earn a lot more on the smaller maps due to less distance... On the bigger maps, you'll have a lot more room for chases and escaping.

Let the hype die down a bit and then see where we end up.

EDIT:

The jobs, regardless of how much you'll earn compared to how much you pay are definitely not worth doing in current state.

CityVan 2500 for example is 24,000eur... The better option there is the UFTRUCK for 8,000eur which seems to be relatively quick in comparison to the VAN25... Then you have the LCT3000 at 55,000eur which again, is relatively quick compared to the VAN25 and holds way much more room (not that any jobs get close to the capacity for it)..

Remember, these systems are all new, in development and feedback goes an absolute long way to improving CityDriving.

--

EDIT 2:

From the small amounts of COP work I've seen, the standard of chases have gone down-hill... Hopefully this is just a few cops and not the majority... Training is always recommended, regardless of your experience... I know for a fact I will be doing a refresher myself just to get back used to how things are!

[Grizz]

Hello,

I agree with you on this one. The server changed its dynamics with the new mod support, which brought a lot of possibilities - including jobs. I appreciated the new jobs update and, statistically, they brought some old and introduced new users.

About your COP experience, It's not hard to understand that we're experiencing a "lack of action" on the servers, as the only supported track for this update so far is Westhill.

Quote:I've got everything to gain and nothing to lose, whilst the suspect has everything to lose and nothing to gain.

That's pretty normal that suspects have more things to lose than cops, as in real life - I wouldn't recommend any economic change regarding this. Tbh, I really miss the old times that only good drivers with decent car control could bring a good chase.

[Tommer]

(2021-12-28 23:35)SIMOX Wrote:  Because cmon, noone want to run from police and see -50, -123, -225 on their income UI. Reason why i was mainly COPing lately. Not that it's more fun, but running from police is just not worth it.

This is one of the things that has bothered me. It used to be a long time ago in [TC] that I'd spend just as much time as a robber than a COP, but now watching that insim UI always puts me off playing as a robber.

I think part of that as well is with so many vehicles to buy now, losing money is a bigger deal than it used to be.

Personally I wish we wouldn't earn/lose money from driving. It's more fun to concentrate on the road than on how much money I'm losing/earning at any moment. Right now that's always in the back of my mind, like big brother watching over me.

[[TC] TAZxx]

I think, losing money will always need to be a part to it, but the amount compared to the new options, cars, etc it definitely should be lowered... Even a 50% increase on the higher numbers will go a long way.

[[RDSR] Misterviin]

(2021-12-29 13:30)Tommer Wrote:  Personally I wish we wouldn't earn/lose money from driving. It's more fun to concentrate on the road than on how much money I'm losing/earning at any moment. Right now that's always in the back of my mind, like big brother watching over me.

No

[THE WIZARD DK]

i noticed yesterday when i did jobruns.

the more who do jobs the less annoying people fly around crashing others.

the roleplay seems to reduce hoodlums on the streets of TC in some odd way.
and makes people drive at limits and use indicators/blinkers alot more.

as a long time cruiser with many bruses of crashes and repaired cars.
i like that actually. however. that still dont apply to cops who i see go ww and even hitting people , when in chases. (no names, just in general).

i also see alot of people wanting to test mods who really cant afford them and looses alot of cash doing so.

i like alot of the new bus/Taxi/job features , but with jobs i think one way to earn more could be if (like i was) in LCT3000 truck, which have a capacity of over 4 tons. going around doing jobs with like 100kg quickly becomes boring.
when you know your vehicle can hold alot more cargo.
so also small suggestion , such as if your car can hold another load of cargo on top of the one you already got. a screen option could show if you like to load another job . and ofc more than 2 jobs should be possible too. my thought is to actually do these you have to complete all jobs before you are able to take a new round of jobs. so it would compensate time spent on jobs vs earnings.

in addition i like many others also think delivering 4100kg of goods and getting paid 42 bucks. seems very unlikely although i do see the need for people to not earn too fast also. but for the reality roleplay, that part is way off somehow.

it does look to me the whole cops and robbers perhaps should not be the essential of the roleplay in the future. but more like teaching people to go by limits and in general keeping rules. i often see certain people just waiting for admins to leave TC and then go on a wrecking rampage, because little to no consequence for the actions. also if you go AFK, even just for few minutes. i often find myself wrecked to shreds ,sometimes even oob. which is rather annoying when youre on job and or on distance bonusses . so maybe also suggesting some sort of "protection of mileage from being AFK", like an insim screen (like home button maybe)(maybe ! cmd) where you can switch to AFK mode. if you get hit or crashed while in this mode. and or if you get hit oob, itll spectate you and save your distance,job or likewise. but wont keep you safe from robbers. this way you wouldnt break your own game because someone had fun destroying half a server. maybe the feature should be for only selected parking spots. i think many long runners would love that. without really knowing.

a few words and suggestions from me.

[[TC] Brad]

(2021-12-31 10:06)THE WIZARD DK Wrote:  i often see certain people just waiting for admins to leave TC and then go on a wrecking rampage, because little to no consequence for the actions.

There are various ways to report: in-game, on forum, on discord (AAN)

[THE WIZARD DK]

(2021-12-31 10:15)Brad Wrote:  

(2021-12-31 10:06)THE WIZARD DK Wrote:  i often see certain people just waiting for admins to leave TC and then go on a wrecking rampage, because little to no consequence for the actions.

There are various ways to report: in-game, on forum, on discord (AAN)

ooof a little late.
yes i know you can report. but that does not change the fact you lost bonus and possibly job run too if getting wrecked. if more than 34 on server you also loose your connection, which you would not have if going AFK for 10-15-30min because you got the mileage for being afk this long. so coming back after 5 min to see everything lost, cant be replaced by reports. it is this part i mean in above post. some sort of protection , like a roleplaying car alarm maybe ,that at the same time also makes sure when in this mode your trip and jobs are not lost, but you can still get robbed.maybe it could have like the lfs car alarm handbrake on too. for safety for rammers wrecking you while going to wc or getting some food ot whatever people do when they go AFK. i know i would appriciate that and i think many long distance drivers would too. hope i made it more clear what i meant by that

[THE WIZARD DK]

(2021-12-28 20:44)Tommer Wrote:  My gut tells me that what would make it work is to simply do away with earning/losing money from driving, and instead earn money from doing jobs only - The job money would have to be increased hugely to completely replace driving income, and fines for traffic violations would have to be raised as a result too to encourage more people to be a [COP] and enforce the traffic speed.

then you end up as seen before on tc with a full server of cops getting no income because the server is full of cops.
jobs is a much better way to earn money & teach people driving by speed limits. irl some cops have two jobs too
(everyone understands what a job is. but not everyone understands how to be a cop/tow/med etc).
so to me the best solution to teach people driving is using the job system.

but in general a bad idea for people like myself who is mostly doing long distances without doing much else. other than getting fined alot by,see above,many cops

in CLC we once tested in the same car(UF1) what is faster or get most income.
so Crystal took coin hunting and i drove distance. to our amazement we were done in about the same time frame. earned the same. got almost same bonus too.
in short it basically equal itself out.

that i would like to see in TC.

(to earn 10.000 you need a certain amount of time. this is where loads on jobs comes in. so to calculate how much time the vehicle and loads, needs to earn 10K. should be the same amount of time it takes to drive a distance to earn 10K.)
(Bonusses could vary but could also in the end of the stint,equal out as same)

this way no one will feel cheated on how they earn money it seems to me.

and they do say:
TIME IS MONEY right. this would actually make that statement totally true

on cop system. i seen many abuse it in the sense they keep fining the same person several times over and over.
a system to prevent this could be a cop can not chase same person after 3/5 times without chasing someone else or within 1 hour or 1 day . some agree to chase each other which should also be allowed. but i seen alot abuse this over the years.
maybe some other solution, i havent thought off yet. but i think its worth to mention. i see it mostly it seems to me, from people who either disagree, just wanna annoy,or dont own more than 3 cars,loosing money fast when they are not cops themselves.
and some of those get their cop rights taken from them later on. in some cases because of it. so to prevent this some sort of limit could be useful

EDIT:
in regard to all this, i think TC has developed posetive over the many years, and i even like the new rockingham layout.
i do think theres to many safety risks on some lyts though still you wouldnt be seing in real life because simply too dangerous for loss of life. but maybe new track editor can help on that part. i hope so.

[Ghutra]

The advent of mods brought a brief of fresh air to LFS overall which is something I wasn't expecting this "soon" aka before the "big update". It is a double-edged sword because while it allows people to finally """make""" cars for LFS, it brings in quite a disparity in performance and handling from some (not all obviously) of those mods, and now the gap between car classes/performance is way bigger.

Copping nowadays is a bit boring since I try to find a car that balances out but I end up either having a car too slow or too fast, but nothing I can't work around it luckily. It also means that while I could chase for example a UF1/XFG in a FXR, it doesn't make sense for me to waste time with it. Assuming there are enough people who are willing to be chased in the first place.
I "enjoyed" the chases against heavy vehicles but sadly they got restricted so there is that too. Was funny to join in odd/slow cars to chase them lol (e.g. the Lemon Ara). Don't like them? Don't join them or don't chase them and problem solved.

Jobs and Deliveries wise : Personally I would remove bus and cargo jobs along with trucks and bus mods from the server altogether and leave COP, MED/RES/TOW and taxi. Trackday is 50/50 but I'd leave it, at least for Westhill.

Overall its good/ok for me.

[MrPeePee]

I havent really ever been that big into the cops and robbers aspect of [TC], it was definitely more of a casual come on, drive a bit, maybe get into a chase but overall it was the community that drew me back. Even though right now I am not really getting involved with the community aspect of [TC], the chill nature of it all compared to other servers really keeps me hooked honestly!

I ended up getting different jobs, enjoying different hobbies and ultimately different games. Returning to the servers and seeing the new cars/jobs has been a breath of fresh air yet at the same time it has been a bit of a culture shock? Saying that though I dont really drive much differently in-game but I will echo what has been said in this thread that I can see there is a definite change in how people drive around the map from what I have seen. (Use of indicators etc to further enhance RP)

I do think its decent that there is an MOT system now, last time I was on I couldnt figure out where the MOT place was (didnt help it was almost 2-3am I think) so I let myself down there after it took less than a minute of searching to find out what an MOT service centre looks like...

The taxi aspect of the server is 100% what will keep me around, does not matter how much money I will make but its something to just mong out, throw some music on and drive around really.

Finally, I do genuinely believe these RP aspects can tie into the core Cops & Robbers experience and like alot of aspects of our lives. We evolve and change over time.