Trip saving for bicycles

[SO•Yukine]

Hello there, bicycles suggestion: trip saving.

Bicycles are fragile things, they always end up out of bounds, whatever malicious intend from other players or casually going through the ground for a regular fail as if hell opened its gates.

Since the income is capped at +5, using a bicycle almost only gives disadvantages: slow, extra fragile, no off road capacities, etc.

What about giving that category of vehicles the privilege of keeping the trip bonus, as an incentive for players to get some kind of reward (compensation?) for the risks?

To embellish the RP, I thought of some kind of global item that goes like this:

• Bicycle helmet & reflective vest
• "Prevents being knocked out and forgetting your trip."
• Being send out of bounds reduces 10% condition.

Thank you.

[[TC]►Vilix◄]

+1 I could see this work nicely

[[CSR] Levi]

+1
I support this idea, maybe for more RP you could have the choice to select [rescue simulation ≈ 5mins, trip save] or standard pit and lose everything.

[Felipe Jardim]

I asked for something similar back in the day before mods, but was told people would abuse the system.

I support this for all two wheeled vehicles in general.

[badmantru]

yes yes yes perfect for bicycles

[[TC]►BP◄]

(2023-08-10 17:26)Felipe Jardim Wrote:  I asked for something similar back in the day before mods, but was told people would abuse the system.

I support this for all two wheeled vehicles in general.

There were no bicycles before mods so I don't see how you could have suggested anything similar

[Felipe Jardim]

(2023-08-10 19:08)BP Wrote:  There were no bicycles before mods so I don't see how you could have suggested anything similar

I suggested trips to be saved in case you were thrown OOB, that's the similarity.

https://forum.city-driving.co.uk/showthr...=trip+save

(2022-01-18 16:19)BP Wrote:  Shit happens sometimes

[[TC]►BP◄]

I see what you mean, but it's quite different since this suggestion is exclusively in regards to bicycles and not every vehicle. I think the latter could well be detrimental (eg less incentive to drive carefully), but I can't think of any big negatives with this.

Might be over-complicating this, but maybe the suggested change would only restore the portion of the trip that was driven with a bicycle.

For example: drive 900 kms with car, ride bike for 49.9 km and get knocked OOB. Your trip will restore at 49.9 because that's the distance (within your current trip) that used a bike.

(2023-08-11 00:09)Felipe Jardim Wrote:  

(2023-08-10 19:08)BP Wrote:  There were no bicycles before mods so I don't see how you could have suggested anything similar

I suggested trips to be saved in case you were thrown OOB, that's the similarity.

https://forum.city-driving.co.uk/showthr...=trip+save

(2022-01-18 16:19)BP Wrote:  Shit happens sometimes

[[TC] Blacktop]

(2023-08-11 05:20)BP Wrote:  For example: drive 900 kms with car, ride bike for 49.9 km and get knocked OOB. Your trip will restore at 49.9 because that's the distance (within your current trip) that used a bike.

Voted Yes under these conditions exclusive to bicycles, would be most fair in my opinion.

[◄Chuck►]

Just a random thought, but what if (generally) the trip would not be lost when OOB or speccing out of SafeZone, but instead just be reduced by, lets say, 15%.

So if you had 100km, it would fall back to 85km. It might require an additional min or max value, like min 10km, max 100km.
And secondly, bonuses may not be collected twice, cause it could be abused to repeat the 100km (as example) over and over again and only drive 15km each time lol.
The bonus money needs to be reduced as well, otherwise people could pile up unlimited amounts before reaching the bonus distance.

[fWANKy]

(2023-08-17 05:56)Chuck Wrote:  Just a random thought, but what if (generally) the trip would not be lost when OOB or speccing out of SafeZone, but instead just be reduced by, lets say, 15%.

So if you had 100km, it would fall back to 85km. It might require an additional min or max value, like min 10km, max 100km.
And secondly, bonuses may not be collected twice, cause it could be abused to repeat the 100km (as example) over and over again and only drive 15km each time lol.
The bonus money needs to be reduced as well, otherwise people could pile up unlimited amounts before reaching the bonus distance.

way better idea. this makes sense

[SO•Yukine]

It could be interesting to test out Chuck.

[◄Chuck►]

Some people were concerned about the, relatively generous, change to the trip saving.
So after two weeks of action now, it's time to recap.

Any comments on the new trip saving?

[[TC]►BP◄]

(2023-09-08 18:01)Chuck Wrote:  Some people were concerned about the, relatively generous, change to the trip saving.
So after two weeks of action now, it's time to recap.

Any comments on the new trip saving?

I think it is currently too generous and diminishes the sense of achievement one may feel gaining a high trip.

My idea would be a Vulnerable Vehicle trip save:
If you are currently using a vulnerable vehicle and lose your trip (also see point below*), you retain the number of KMs you drove while in a vulnerable vehicle.

For example: A user has driven 35 KM in vulnerable vehicle, then 70 KM in non-vulnerable vehicle (same trip), another 20 KM in vulnerable vehicle (same trip). The user then falls out of bounds while using the vulnerable vehicle: the user's trip will go from 125 KM to 55 KM.

Vulnerable vehicles could include any bike, the box car, and so on.

*Is there a way for InSim to recognise when someone is out of bounds or not? I don't think there should be any sort of saving if the person pits/specs while inside track boundaries.

This idea may be too complicated, but at least at the moment I think things are a little too generous.

[SO•Yukine]

I still think the system should only incorporate bicycles, and to some extend "vulnerable" vehicles as BP said.

I understand that it was suggested in past, but trip saving for everybody is not a necessity by itself.
I even find that some people drive with even less care since it was implemented.

The system of losing a certain percentage of trip could be interesting, but for cars, not bicycles (& co) as 10-100km is a long distance for a bicycle (what's the point of trip saving if you keep loosing all your trip by chunks)?


About non vulnerable vehicles:
I don't understand giving out the privilege of pitting outside the safe zones if you're not out of bounds/unrecoverable.
We got TOWs or Free Pit for that.

That said, maybe in that regards you could get a menu interaction that sends you to pit (or spec) while saving your trip, against a fine?
It's a really basic idea but still could be a compromise when you got a high trip and you get sent out of bounds by a ww driver or something like that.

[[TC]►Carl◄]

(2023-09-08 18:01)Chuck Wrote:  Some people were concerned about the, relatively generous, change to the trip saving.
So after two weeks of action now, it's time to recap.

Any comments on the new trip saving?

I'm personally not a fan but haven't yet thought of another approach to it that would not be overly advantageous.

-A trip (where a car computer is concerned) is a single distance without interuption, it shouldn't be reduced.
-Players accept the risk being in vulnerable vehicles so should consider riding them when they don't want to protect high trips
-Collisions are a natural occurence in the server, everyone accepts this. If you choose to ride a bike or a small car, you should accept the consequences of the crash physics with those vehicles.

[Ghutra]

(2023-09-08 18:01)Chuck Wrote:  Some people were concerned about the, relatively generous, change to the trip saving.
So after two weeks of action now, it's time to recap.

Any comments on the new trip saving?

Was thinking this throughtout the week about it: Keep this trip saving system but it only works if you have Free Pit available (5mins passed)

[Felipe Jardim]

I was finally able to complete a 1000km bonus which i haven't done in a long time, thanks to this new system. However I ended up driving an extra 180 kms because of the percentage losses i experience. Now i wasn't sent OOB once throughout the entire 1000kms however i lost connection multiple times. My crappy ISP has certain times of day where i always have packet loss. Now chuck implemented a system where if you lose connection your trip is saved if you are MOVING at >5 m/s which is great, but i don't think the insim always recognized that I was moving which caused those percentage losses out of my trip. I wish full trip would just resume with ANY type of connection loss, along with job progresses and maybe even the ability to rejoin chases lost due to connection.

[fWANKy]

(2023-09-08 19:16)Carl Wrote:  

(2023-09-08 18:01)Chuck Wrote:  Some people were concerned about the, relatively generous, change to the trip saving.
So after two weeks of action now, it's time to recap.

Any comments on the new trip saving?

I'm personally not a fan but haven't yet thought of another approach to it that would not be overly advantageous.

-A trip (where a car computer is concerned) is a single distance without interuption, it shouldn't be reduced.
-Players accept the risk being in vulnerable vehicles so should consider riding them when they don't want to protect high trips
-Collisions are a natural occurence in the server, everyone accepts this. If you choose to ride a bike or a small car, you should accept the consequences of the crash physics with those vehicles.

what she said +11111111111

[◄Chuck►]

I'd really not like having two classes of vehicles, the one that may be saved and the others not. That creates unnecessary complexity and just another unfairness.

Imo, every car in a hopeless position deserves a rescue. At a certain price, ofc.
The current price is the 10% distance loss, and people who have experienced it will likely say: "it is indeed a price". Well, a 500€ fine would also be a certain price, but bearing in mind, the main goal is to rescue people who got innocently into this situation, e.g. crashed by someone else, the price is very unfair.

From a technical standpoint, I have multiple scenarios, of which not all can be detected by Insim.

1. Car flying OOB (and leaving the track) => easy to detect
2. Car flying OOB (and remain on ground, maybe flipped) => unable to detect
3. Car somewhere stuck elsewhere on track => unable to detect

I made a test for #2 if the Z value could be a help, but it's not possible

As you can see, other parts of the track are actually higher than this icy invisible ground.

I do have some other means available:
- Maybe a forced spec time?
- The rescue button does sound interesting. Maybe only a certain time after a heavy crash?
- The rescue button could start virtual "helicopter rescue" that takes a few minutes.
- Maybe a RES unit with a crane can rescue over great distances?
- Maybe multiple RES units work together?