Windows 8

[◄Chuck►]

I was wondering not to read anything yet here, so. Is anybody using
it already, or tested it, or has anything else to share about it?

[[TC]►Bez◄]

Using it. Not had any major problems so far. Really easy to use once you get used to it, also mega fast at starting up. Bit of a hassle with some games on steam, but running them as admin from steamapps fixes most. Really enjoyable to use, nice new clean look. Not sure what else i can add.

[Malibu]

I thought, let's give it a chance. So I went down to a major media store to test it on one of their devices. One word, rubbish.

It's called Windows, yet there are no Windows?

[Cola]

I'm using it on my Desktop PC, and on my Lenovo W500 notebook. Running really nice on both. Definitely a keeper for me

[Stunna]

Does it even have a taskbar like windows 7?

[[TC]»Elmo«]

(2012-11-11 21:28)Malibu Wrote:  I thought, let's give it a chance. So I went down to a major media store to test it on one of their devices. One word, rubbish.

It's called Windows, yet there are no Windows?

There's a "Desktop" tile. Click it and you get the full desktop.



I've played with the Release Preview on a VM, I'll have a go at running in it on real hardware at some point.

On the whole, it's very similar to W7 to use, although the start menu is fullscreen and has apps if you want to bother with them. It's a bit clunky in places for mouse uses, but can be mostly ignored.

The task manager has had an overhaul, as has a few other admin tools iirc. They've also improved some file handling stuff.
Underneath, it's a bit more efficient and has various kernel improvements. They're also pushing 'native' (C++) stuff more and relying a bit less on .Net runtimes.

---

(2012-11-11 21:50)Stunna Wrote:  Does it even have a taskbar like windows 7?

Yep. Just no start button

Spoiler (Click to View)

[Hexta]

I think the design is ugly. Not too sure if I'll ever want to upgrade!

[Malibu]

It's ridiculous that you have to switch between two modes all the time, they should've just keep the classic mode for those who want to keep the old style, or just finish the new style because what it is now is just an extension to 7, which doesn't fit together at all.

[[TC]►Bez◄]

The tile mode is basically your old start menu... Just in bigger form.. You can tile all your programs here. The whole point of the desktop tile is so you can get to your desktop... You don't ever have to swap modes unless you're looking for a program..

Warning 1920x1080 (Click to View)

+ The new design was based on touchscreen computers since they are becoming more popular now a days.. If you don't like it simply don't upgrade. No one forces you too..

[KaraK [T]]

I've seen plenty of windows 8 stuff.. Has its pros and cons. But I'm certainly not upgrading. I prefer the old windows look (:
I also prefer the old windows logo.

[GT4tube]

I hate Win8

[Fatteeh]

Been using it since the developer preview, and never really liked it. I find it uncomfortable and confusing to use with a non-touchscreen device.

[◄Chuck►]

I have done a few researches the last days, and found out some interesting things.

- Regarding the Startmenu: there are many alternatives by now(even free ones, like classic shell) which perfectly take the place that Microsoft left over. They even allow to skip the tiled-screen and directly start into the "normal" desktop.

Well, I had first to find out what Windows 8 actually is. Not that simple as it turns out.
Windows 8 Pro and Enterprise basically exist of two operating systems each. These versions are direct successors of Windows 7, thus they run on x68 and x64 machines.

1) They consist of the classic desktop part along with all the Windows services as we know them from Windows 7 and earlier versions.
2) The other part is that colourful tiled thing (aka Metro UI or modern UI, or my favourite, the 3 seashells , Demolition Man fans may remember ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mFuB0gsNAA )) that is usually shown as Windows 8. The Windows App Store does also belong to this area.
Now here comes the clue. That modern thing and all their apps are supposed not to use the normal Windows API, but the new invented Windows Runtime (WinRT).
The new Windows Runtime allows the access to fundamental Windows functions from many languages, including .net and JavaScript, plus the most important point, it exists for Windows RT.
If that's an actual improvement or just an easier way to create malware and viruses, well, time will show.

That stupid naming is just another stroke of genius by Microsoft:
- "WinRT" = "Windows Runtime" = Just functions, a bit like the Java-runtime
- "Windows RT" = Windows 8 for Tablets (ARM cpu instead of x86)
Now, Microsoft made sure the WinRT does also exist for Windows RT, hence all applications using the WinRT do also run there. That was the actual idea to get apps on these devices.

Windows RT does ONLY provide the WinRT and the "modern" interface. The first part, all the Windows desktop stuff, is NOT available there. That's why I said the other versions were basically 2 operating systems.
Some parts do suddenly make sense, heh?

Btw, a developer who wants to distribute his app via the MS App Store must compile his app for all the CPUs he wants to support (i68, a64, arm) to be available for the particular device. I.e. if he only compiles it for i86, it wont appear in the Store on a tablet-device using Windows RT.
I heard that tablets using x64 CPUs are underway, that means they can run the "complete" Windows 8 including desktop mode.

Well, I'm not sure where all this goes; wouldn't be the first time that Microsoft changed their opinion completely.


Bah , typed a lot already.

[◄Chuck►]

Some other thing is, though you don't need a Microsoft account to use Windows 8 in general,
you need it to install apps via the Microsoft Store. That's the default way to install apps
of those kind. There exists a workaround to install them anyway, by setting some policy-value,
which is set by default on Enterprise versions so that admins may distribute software within the company.

However, I see two problems there:
1. Privacy issues, as a particular User-Id is now linkable to a unique Windows installation.
2. Software manufacturers cannot provide their software on a CD or DVD any more without enclosing a manual how to open W8 for 3rd party installations.

While having some sort of store to distribute applications is generally a good idea, I think Microsoft didn't do their homework thoroughly on this one.
Ubuntu basically shows how it could work.

[◄Chuck►]

Example screenshot Win8 Retail in a VM:

Tools installed:
Classic Shell: http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/
Ribbon disabler: http://winaero.com/download.php?view.18

It also boots directly to desktop.




Found that too: MS messed up the status-bar big time. Its now some utterly useless thing.
-The resize-grip turned into 2 pointless buttons.
-The "zone" is not longer shown at all (computer/lan/etc)
-The cumulated file-size is gone
-The filesize is only calculated when selecting up to 100 files, after that, only the number of files is shown.
That's really poor, Microsoft. Or blame god, he gave us 3TB harddisks but took away the software showing its contents.

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Foru...afa5fcad4/

[[TC]»Elmo«]

(2012-11-12 09:33)Chuck Wrote:  Some other thing is, though you don't need a Microsoft account to use Windows 8 in general,
you need it to install apps via the Microsoft Store. That's the default way to install apps
of those kind. There exists a workaround to install them anyway, by setting some policy-value,
which is set by default on Enterprise versions so that admins may distribute software within the company.

However, I see two problems there:
1. Privacy issues, as a particular User-Id is now linkable to a unique Windows installation.
2. Software manufacturers cannot provide their software on a CD or DVD any more without enclosing a manual how to open W8 for 3rd party installations.

While having some sort of store to distribute applications is generally a good idea, I think Microsoft didn't do their homework thoroughly on this one.
Ubuntu basically shows how it could work.

This only applies to WinRT/ARM. You can install what you like to the desktop of x86/64 PCs and tablets the same as before. Noone's going to provide software on a CD/DVD for an ARM tablet - they don't have drives.

You raise a good point with Ubuntu - Linux has had much better software management than windows for a very long time. The Ubuntu store is basically a pretty frontend for Synaptic/apt.

(2012-11-12 11:41)Chuck Wrote:  -The resize-grip turned into 2 pointless buttons.

Kinda annoying I guess, but I haven't failed to hit the corner yet when trying to resize - there's an 8x8px area to hit.

(2012-11-12 11:41)Chuck Wrote:  -The "zone" is not longer shown at all (computer/lan/etc)

Not sure what you mean by that - I see no obvious difference from W7

(2012-11-12 11:41)Chuck Wrote:  -The filesize is only calculated when selecting up to 100 files, after that, only the number of files is shown.

That's 84 files more than W7, which only did the first 15. In W7, you had to click "more details" in the status bar to calculate the total, in W8 you click the properties icon at the top left.

The W8 status bar is 1/3 of the height of the smallest the W7 one would go, which is a nice improvement (technically regression) when viewing a lot of files.

[◄Chuck►]

(2012-11-12 23:34)Elmo Wrote:  ...
This only applies to WinRT/ARM. You can install what you like to the desktop of x86/64 PCs and tablets the same as before. Noone's going to provide software on a CD/DVD for an ARM tablet - they don't have drives.

You may install everything in the "desktop-part", thats correct, but you must not install Windows-Store Apps, which all belong to the "Modern" thingy, but that applies to all versions, not just the ARM one.

Look here: "Sideloading" is the keyword
http://blogs.technet.com/b/scd-odtsp/arc...ments.aspx




As for the statusbar:
Maybe we're talking about 2 different thing:


This is from Windows 7. As you can see, the cumulated filesize is calculated correctly, regardless how many files I select. Windows 8 does that only for up to 100.
Furthermore, when selecting no files at all, W7 showed the total size of the folder, W8 shows nothing.

Regarding the zone, they're not that important most of the time but sometimes precious. It reveals when Windows failed yet again to detect LAN resources correctly. I.e. if you want to run a program from a LAN device and Windows falsely assigned the "Internet" zone to that location, programs do suddenly run weird as they don't have the privileges they should have. Happened to me just a few days ago, I connected a USB drive to my new internet router and Windows failed once again it was in the LAN, not the Internet. Especially .net programs react allergic to right restrictions.

[[TC]»Elmo«]

Ah, that screenshot is showing the behaviour of one of your 3rd party addons - I forget what it's called, but I tried it for a while after you told me about it.

This is the default Windows 7:

[◄Chuck►]

(2012-11-13 21:47)Elmo Wrote:  Ah, that screenshot is showing the behaviour of one of your 3rd party addons - I forget what it's called, but I tried it for a while after you told me about it.

No its not. You must be confusing two things.
I'm using the official status-bar that is accessible directly via the "View" menu.
What you're showing is called the "Details Pane" which is accessible via that space eating ribbon-button "Organize->Layout->Details Pane".
I never cared much about the second one because its simply wasting too much space and likes to open the files on focus.

see, I can even activate both at a time


btw: there is no visible menubar carrying the View menu in your screenshot. So either hold the alt key or permanently activate it also via that "layout" button I mentioned above.

[[TC]»Elmo«]

Ah.
However, while the status bar does show the zone, it NEVER shows the cumulative/total file size. All it has is number of files total or selected, which is even less useful than the details pane.



Your ClassicShell mod does that:

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/features.html Wrote:Status bar
In Windows 7 the status bar in Explorer doesn't show the free disk space and the size of the selected files. Classic Explorer fixes that:



When no files are selected the total size of all files in the folder is shown.